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GoDaddy reviews : Good idea to go GoDaddy?? Weird C&D letter from enom.com (demand media)

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In 2005 I was searching for a short and memorable name (like we all do here in this forum).

I found the "kenom.com" which sounded like ke(y)nom and more like key for names to me.

In fact I registered also in 2006 keynom.com too to avoid spelling errors.

Never used for new domain registrations but for registered domain sales.

Because from first glance someone and especially a domainer would think that this may remind you the "enom.com" I thought it will better to ask before I use it.

So I did.

I asked :.

Your Original Message - 6/10/2005 3:24 PM.

"3. The use of xenom.com ( where x can be any combination ) as an enom ETP website violates the copyright of your company or not ?".

Enom :.

Agent Reply: May Blatherwick - 6/12/2005 7:48 AM.

"3. Again, please clarify your question?.

I replied :.

Your Reply - 6/12/2005 8:52 AM.

"If I use a name such us xenom.com ( where x can be any english letter like benom.com for example ) , as the basic name of an enom ETP website to promote and sell domain name services.

Do you consider the name ( because it contains the name of enom.com , in the example before benom.com ) violates the enom.com copyright or do you believe in general there is any problem to use it for this purpose and with this kind of services as an ETP reseller of enom ?".

Enom :.

Agent Reply: May Blatherwick - 6/13/2005 7:59 AM "If the name you are looking to register is available, you would be able to use it for domain registration. I hope this answers your question. Let me know if you need anything else".

So I took the OK and proceed. As you may see i'm already few years to this forum and I display the domain name even at the signature.

In 12-Feb-2008 few days ago I received a C&D letter from Demand Media the new /img/avatar9.jpgs of enom saying that :.

It was recently brought to Demand Medias attention that you have registered and are using the domain name <kenom.com>. Your use of a domain name that incorporates the whole of Demand Medias trademark is an obvious attempt to divert Demand Medias consumers to your website and is a potential violation of US trademark law and unfair competition laws as well as the federal Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act. Please note that the addition of an extra letter "k" does not itself distinguish this domain from the ENOM trademark. Furthermore, your current use of the domain directs users to a website that offers domain name services which are in direct competition with Demand Media. Your registration and use of this domain illustrates your obvious and willful intent to register a domain to divert Demand Media customers to your website. Willful trademark infringement may expose you to treble monetary damages and other penalties.



Dear Mrs......

I must say I was surprised from your email.

My surprise was based on the fact that I had the same opinion like you before the registration of the name (that the domain may bump at your copyright fences).

Because I value enom.com enough many years now I thought it was proper to ask at the time of the registration time of the domain.

"mentioned the details of my communication I put at the top of the post".

I have the receipts for all these contacts to prove the validly of the previous data.

I don't feel threatened from your email but rather disappointed from enom.

The idea of the name was not based on enom as an extension with a "K" but more like ke(y)nom.com (the key for names).

That's why I registered keynom.com too on 15-jul-2006 to avoid spelling typing errors and redirect it to kenom.com when I had the time to push kenom.com more.

Ending I want to underline this, I don't make a living from kenom.com or noticed a great increase in sales so in other words is not so significant for me.

However I find this issue serious enough to make it public starting from various domain name forums that I visit daily.

If this was indeed a big site you could ruin his business and this type of irresponsible behavior is not what I had in mind for enom that I support all these years She replied :.

Dear Mr......,.

I am happy to hear that you support the eNom domain registrar services. Certainly you can understand the importance of protecting the eNom trademark as well as protection customer's from being deceived or confused when they mistype the domain <kenom.com> and they are directed to a site that offers the identical and competitive services offered on ENOM.COM. As a trademark holder, Demand Media is required to protect it's trademark rights as well as it's consumers from confusion or deception, and it is believed that your registration of the domain <kenom.com> is a deliberate attempt to divert customers seeking eNom domain registrar services to your site.

I am not familiar with your conversation with May Blatherwick. No one by that name currently works at Demand Media, Inc. However, you even mention that you "had the same opinion" that your registration of the <kenom.com> domain "may bump into your copyright fences" which indicates that you knew customers might potentially become confused with your registration of this domain.

I did not intend to come across in a threatening manner. My tone is only to convey the importance that Demand Media places on it's valuable intellectual property rights and on the value of protecting Demand Media consumers from being mislead or confused.

I hope that you are willing to work together towards an amicable resolution in this matter. I replied :.

Mrs .......

First of all i'm happy with your fast reply.

However I think you disregarded the content of my email and you lower the value of the data I provided.

I don't find it very professional to say you don't know who is "May Blatherwick".

Sorry to say that I don't know your company too. From what you say you are the new /img/avatar9.jpgs of enom. I know enom from 2002 but didn't know Demand Media.

If you notice the day of the conversation I provided and that the reply came straight from enom.com ( was registered (check the days).

I provided you with the prove for this. If this ruin your case i'm not the one you should blame.

I understand your position to work and produce results for your company and I would agree right away with you if I didn't ask for this before 3 years.

The importance to Demand Media and every legal or consulting company should be not only to protect the customers of your enom but also the reputation of enom that you clearly heart right now.

I'm certainly willing to work with you to find a common acceptable solution even I don't find any from the options your provided until now.

May I suggest to start with an apology from your side regarding the accusations and the outcome you extract from my email ?

Comments (75)

Enom is well known for this. If you have a legitimate use for a domain which contains the string 'enom' definitely register elsewhere..

BTW try to register a name with 'godaddy' at GD.....

Comment #1

The name is registered with name.com (domainsite.com) not under enom.com.

Was never under enom the whole time..

Comment #2

To be honest, if you stand your ground I don't think they will do anything. If they go as far as to threaten legal action then maybe hand it over, but until then I'd recommend keeping it and continuing what you're doing...

Comment #3

Any update on this and I think you shold stand firm as I think you have a case.

They have given you the green light so it should be ok.

-Dan..

Comment #4

I wouldn't hand it over, I would just remove content and then charge enom a fee to have an iframe redirect to themselves, otherwise what else are they going todo? You already have written (email) permission to use the names from themselves...

Comment #5

The biggest weakness for your case is the fact that you admitted the possible confict with their trademark at the time of registration, so much as to ask them about it and with the follow-up to the legal team. Regardless of what a CS person(not legal so weaker) says, you will likely lose the name. Bad advice, no matter who gives it, your counsel or theirs, does not get better over time.

You then have possible action to go after eNom for a representative of the company giving you the green light and you building a business against that and now discovering it is a violation. You might be able to recoup some of your expenses and a "few dollars" but afraid it will not go your way. Better to work it out with them rather than go to arbitration.

Your other option is to show how it does not conflict with their business or infringe on their mark. Good luck (I learned all my lawyering from TV!)..

Comment #6

Maybe because that person indeed doesn't work at Demand Media, not eNom..

While eNom has indeed been acquired by Demand Media, it's possible that the.

Executives aren't completely familiar with eNom's customer support people nor.

Has to know all of them.

Generally, such companies handle respective queries issued to them separately..

This is to help avoid confusing the two.

Now, Ms. Blatherwick was very careful to reply to your question this way: She said you'd be able to use the domain name for registration if it's available,.

Then to let her know if you need anything else. Is that so hard to understand?.

Speaking from previous registrar experience, reps aren't supposed to answer.

Questions with legal flavors. There's no telling what occurred in eNom's side at.

That time of the OP's query, but they likely did what their procedure called for.

For that type of issue. (though I'm just guessing here...).

Sure they could just forward it to their legal counsel. Then if they reply to it,.

Say, 3 or 4 days after saying it might infringe their intellectual property, that.

Domain name might be registered by then anyway. (or someone might rant in.

Here how "slow" they were to reply...).

Bottom line: you knew what you were doing, and you knew the consequences.

Of it. Now that that's done and you got this result, only you can decide if you.

Are up to it.

Good luck. You'll need it.

And no, Demand Media didn't necessarily do anything wrong. Then again, it's.

Probably dependent on how one feels about it...

Comment #7

I think he had a reasonable expectation that when sending a legal question to enom that a legal response would come back. To say that the CS was at fault doesn't place the fault back on the owner of Kenom. He certainly acted within good faith imho.

I love how he owned Demand Media. It was classic.

Great job sir...

Comment #8

Yesterday I received one for wenom.com, today I approved the transfer request to them...

Comment #9

You know what, Jesse, I understood the words "use it for domain registration".

To mean registering the domain name. That goes to show some people might.

Treat certain words differently, and that's likely what caused this to occur.

Unfortunately what's done is done, namely the domain name and it's content is.

Potentially infringing Demand Media's eNom trademark. While Demand Media's.

Executives may tell eNom's to "coach" the rep who replied to dotnom's query.

(and maybe apologize for any possible confusion), that's not necessarily going.

To change their position towards dotnom.

Well, folks, lesson here is don't register and use domain names that potentially.

Infringe registrars' trademarks...

Comment #10

So do you find her reply logical when someone says he has prof at least that the domain was not registered in bad faith to say "i don't know that person" and not research this issue further before you reply ? I guess it is..

First the "let me know if you need anything else" is common can phrase of all the support depts.

It's a polite way to say that i'm here for you.

It doesn't mean that you should follow these steps.

Also if you follow the conversation (which was not IM but email with full signatures from enom) I asked if the domain can be used for domain services. She replied that I can register it if it was available.

What is the meaning you can guess here ? .

That you can register it and sell footwear or use it for the tasks you mentioned before ? Exactly, and from this issue you don't see it as enom's fault.

What is their procedure ? .

To say yes to every serious/generic/technical question ? I don't understand how this the bottom line and how you assume all these but the one thing you are right is the "if you are up to it" Don't we all need luck ? .

Everyone needs it.

I wish the same to you and everyone reading this post together with every leaving person in earth (and other planets too).

Bottom line for me is :.

I don't have time to deal with this, I have other projects in my mind.

However I notified the law firm I use for this incident, packed and forwarded the 4 emails with enom's signatures and have them standby if there is any need to proceed.

My suggestion to enom for all the reasons I mentioned before was :.

- Change the topic of kenom.com to something different from domain name services.

- Put at this site a visual disclaimer that the site has no relation with enom (for surfers with spelling typos of enom).

- Move the domain name services to keynom.com.

I will update you with this issue when I have any news..

Comment #11

That's something only eNom knows. One can guess, but that's just about it.

I do hope, though, that somehow you both find a win-win solution...

Comment #12

At least Demand Media lives up to it's name..

Comment #13

For me this just says that you are able to register any name as long as it isn't already registered.. nothing more, nothing less.. of course this would be also true for names like mcdonalds.com, viagra.com, nhl.com.. (as long as they aren't already registered)..

Comment #14

If you read carefully she said that I can USE IT FOR domain registration when I specified in detail the niche of the site (domain names registration reselling and domain name services)..

Comment #15

And there's the problem. That was what was thought, perceived, whatever to.

Be the answer, but it's possible it's not what eNom's rep intended to reply.

Hmm, assuming mst didn't read my post, I guess I wasn't alone in thinking this.

As well: Of course, no one really knows unless someone from eNom spoke up on this. (Got me chuckling there, RR...)..

Comment #16

If the domain was free to be registered what is the point to ask for their permission ? .

Does this have any logic ?

Apart from this I describe in detail the domain I wanted to register (something between aenom - zenom.com), I registered the name the days of this email conversation and not before which means this was indeed related with enom's reply.

I also noticed the last few days that I received many reputation points to some forums for this topic. I assume there are people with similar or worse experiences with enom or just express their support. Thanks!..

Comment #17

If you're, say, one of their ETPs, your agreement with them has one answer...

Comment #18

Do you consider the name ( because it contains the name of enom.com , in the example before benom.com ) violates the enom.com copyright or do you believe in general there is any problem to use it for this purpose and with this kind of services as an ETP reseller of enom ?

She didn't say "no, a name like benom.com/cenom.com/denom.com/etc.. doesn't violate our copyright and you are free to register the domain and to use it for the purpose of reselling domains..".

Instead she simply said "if the name you are looking to register is available, you would be able to use it for domain registration...".

How do you imply that the answer you got is giving you the confirmation to use such a domain for reseller-services? for me it's just a typical vague answer from someone at the support-department who isn't allowed to give any legal information.

Anyway, good luck in that case!.

(and sorry for my bad english)..

Comment #19

It's interesting to see these opinions.

I think this verifies the rule.

A color that many people see it red, others see it brown and others ... black.

Still all opinions are good to be expressed in a public forum like this..

Comment #20

I doubt she even read your email. She probably just skimmed it, saw something about "can I register a domain like..." and she gave some canned response, like all lousy CS people do.

This happens to me all the time where I'll send an email asking a specific question and I get some canned response that has absolutely nothing to do with my question. Makes me furious!.

Really, I don't think her response really says much. I think that given the context of your question, it makes sense to assume that she was specifically responding to it. And maybe that would have some weight in a legal proceeding, as a reasonable person might assume the same thing. However, the depths at which companies try to cut cost (and service) is completely unreasonable... Knowing that, like I said, it'd be my guess that she probably didn't even read your email...

Comment #21

There have been other cases of "enom" domains at eNom simply being taken from the customer's accounts.

There are usually hundreds of GoDaddy typos available at TDNAM. So I don't think GD have any set policy on the registration of "godaddy" domains.

Anyway. Anybody in their right minds would not register "enom" domains at eNom of "godaddy" domains at GoDaddy.

I just did a search of USPTO, and the trademark ENOM is owned by eNom. Not by Demand Media. So I think they are possibly misrepresenting themselves. I also see nothing in that trademark covering the reselling of domains in the aftermarket.

I think you have received permission from eNom for use of the kenom, even for domain registrations. So I would hold out for much longer. Of course, a lawsuit might rapidly change your mind. But if they go the UDRP route, I might be inclined to tough it out. You can defend yourself at the tribunal, no problem, although, of course, you'd be better served with legal council. I think you have a good case although DM have not given you any specifics yet.

I think you haven't done yourself any favors in your responses so far.

I'm not a lawyer and any remarks I make shouldn't be construed as legal advice...

Comment #22

It is good to see DM has people working on this case. I heard on Fox News a couple of minutes ago... there have been large numbers of people mistyping 'enom'. Sometimes you feel the world is heading in the wrong direction. But every once in a while, you see a light at the end of the tunnel.

And I was concerned DM was going to spend, money, time and talent on something silly like... PROMOTING the .TV extension. We don't have to worry about that waste of resources as long as people keep registering rypos... tupos... typod... anyway... you know what I mean...

Comment #23

I agree it looks as if they purposily answered another question. Personaly I would fire that CS rep if they worked for me. They should of understood the integraty of that message and the importance and sent it to proper supervisor/ legal councel. I blame the cs rep...

Comment #24

It's good to see DM working for which case ? .

I don't think from what I mentioned above that I intentionally registered a typo and tried to exploit the traffic of enom.

Typos are good to get the blind type-in traffic and not be visible at top domain name forums like this where various registrar representatives visit them daily..

Comment #25

That was a tongue in cheek reference DM's lack of proper focus. Not attacking your actions. I am a fan of typos...

Comment #26

Hand it over. A lawsuit would be disasterous for you and your business...

Comment #27

It is rather easy to blame someone for some perceived wrongdoing. However,.

We know nothing what went on at the other side to remotely conclude if s/he.

Should've done this or did the right thing under the circumstances.

BTW, this just came in: http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/d...2007-1677.html..

Comment #28

Dave...I have to say I have never seen you so wrong on an issue from my perspective. My understanding of the reply from enom is very clear to me and it's not cloudy. Some idiotic rep told him in response to a specific question regarding USAGE that he could use it for DOMAIN REGISTRATION. One has to assume that anyone working at Enom is familiar with terminology.

"If the name you are looking to register is available, you would be able to use it for domain registration.".

USE IT FOR does not mean REGISTER....

He asked a specific question and while we all know the rep has made an error this does not place blame on the domain registrant. He acted in good-faith here. If he has proof of this communication then he is certainly in view in the clear.

Will Enom still go after him...probably. Being right doesn't mean you win. The fight in this case isn't worth it imho.

Imagine you go to Best Buy and a clerk rings up a Plasma TV for $399 instead of $3999. You pay with a credit card. About a month later Best Buy contacts you and says unless you come in and pay the difference or return the TV they are going to sue you. The law is clear...the mistake of an employee is not the fault of the buyer. He acted in good faith here without any intention to decieve...

Comment #29

I originally understood that reply to exactly mean it can be registered, but I've.

Since re-read it and saw it rather differently. Mst0192 coincidentally saw it the.

Same way I did that time, though, which may or may not coincide with that of.

ENom.

Differences of opinion is fine. But would you want to give someone a cause to.

Sue you or worse, even if you believe you're right?.

YMMV...

Comment #30

My interpretation of the sentence was different (and it seems that I wasn't the only one), but I am not a native speaker...

If "use it for domain registration" clearly expresses the "usage for letting others register domains" (like labrocca said), then of course dotnom should be in a good position....

Comment #31

Well..if this was me I wouldn't have ever registered the domain and certainly had I registered the name I wouldn't email Enom. Somehow the registrant got lucky with that reply. Of course Enom can't admit any wrongdoing here otherwise they lose their legal ground.

I think the OP is handling this pretty well. He seems to be communication well enough for himself. If push comes to shove I have little doubt he will fight to keep the name but he might at least be able to negotiate something out of this. If it was me I would request domain registration credits at Enom...

Comment #32

If someday, renoma decides to sell domains as well, is there ground for enom to sue for infringement of trademark? I'd like to hear everybodies views...

Comment #33

Update from demand media representative :.

I do not have record of your conversation with Ms. May Blatherwick as she no longer is employed here at eNom, Inc. Your alleged conversation with this employee occurred over two years ago. Furthermore, you contacted the customer support center about "copyright infringement," not the legal department or any legal counsel that is familiar with trademark law. Had you contacted the legal department with your inquiry, the legal department would have objected to your registration of XENOM or KENOM for domain registration services. I also note that you are not the registrant of XENOM.COM, the domain in which you allegedly inquired about.

ENom, Inc was founded in 1997 and quickly became a leader in domain name registration services. Demand Media acquired eNom, Inc in 2006, but still operates as eNom and offers it's services under the ENOM trademark. ENOM is a federally registered trademark and has been in constant use since 2002. ENOM and the ENOM.COM domain are widely recognized as the second largest domain name registrar worldwide. As such, you can certainly understand the importance of Demand Media protecting it's intellectual property rights as well as protecting it's consumers from confusion, mistake, or deception. Your registration and use of the KENOM.COM domain to offer domain name registration services is confusingly similar to ENOM.COM.

I do hope that you can understand and respect Demand Media's desire to protect is intellectual property as well as it's consumers. eNom consumers expect a high quality domain registration service and Demand Media would like to keep that goodwill intact. Therefore, I respectfully ask that you cease use of the KENOM.COM domain name and transfer this domain to Demand Media at once. I do hope that we can reach an amicable resolution in this matter before it become necessary to take some form of legal action.

QUICK Notes from me :.

1. The fact that an employee doesn't work there makes the information invalid?.

So if she did work there they would ask her, she would remember by heart and verify or not the incident?.

2. Is it my fault or enom's fault that I received a reply from a customer support representative ?

3. Is this a joke or not that i'm not the registrant of XENOM.com that I mentioned as an example in my communication with clear references of what I wanted to say.

A. The use of xenom.com ( where x can be any combination )......

B. If I use a name such us xenom.com ( where x can be any english letter like benom.com for example ).......

Comment #34

Hmmmmmm- I guess the need to go after venom.com and take it away from marvel comics..

Comment #35

I don't know about you people but I don't find serious enough the communication with Demand Media (or at least this representative)..

The replies of DM repr. don't look so rational to me.

I just can't stand see them offend common sense and me personally with "bad faith" accusations, play deaf for their "mistake" and demand with arrogance the name.

This is not what I had in my mind for enom that I supported all these years. This irresponsible approach does not belong to someone that wants to call himself 2nd registrar worldwide (or is it because he is 2nd registrar that allows him to act like this?).

Next step before anything legal is to find someone at enom/demand media that he can understand and reply to my questions.

Anyone knows contact information for their sales/legal manager/ceo or anyone capable to understand this case ?

Comment #36

Read DotNom's post again.

"Had you contacted the legal department with your inquiry, the legal department would have objected to your registration of XENOM or KENOM for domain registration services.

The objection was to registering a similar domain for domain registration services.

Therefore there would be no need to go after Marvel Comic and Venom.com.

Unless they start to do domain registrations.

You should be more fair and observant.

Patrick..

Comment #37

CS reps will tell you anything just to get you off their back.

I remember when the SideKick 3 was coming out. I would call up the CS line and ask them when it was coming out and they would tell me that it would come out the next week or not even come out at all. I basically got a different response every time I called back. CS reps dont actually have any power or know any information especially in new products and legal matters.

As stated before the response that was given was quite vague. My initial thought when reading it was that you could register the domain, thats basically all I got out of it. You should have clarified with her the final response. If you would have gotten a clear reaponse from the lady you could take it court and use that as strong evidence to support the matter.

Also what holds you back is that you pretty much knew that it was going to infringe on the trademark. You also stated you knew what you were doing.

All in all get what you can out of it. If they threaten legal action just do what they say. Take it as a lesson learned. Ohh yeah when getting clarification on this type of matter in the future as to talk to a supervisor. They will be able to help you more than the average CS rep that is just there to read a computer screen and give vague responses.

Little story that is kind of funny and kind of contributes to what I am talking about:.

The other day I was looking for a bag of "Flaming Hot Funions". I litterally drove around to every gas station looking for them and I couldnt seem to find them. I was getting frustrated so I asked the cashier at one of the gas stations if they carried them and I got this response "Whats a Funion?". This just goes to show that just because someone works at a place that sells funions and prolly sees them on a daily basis might not know what they are. LOL kind of ridiculous (sorry just had to tell it)..

Comment #38

I think smashfactory tried to be funny and not actually mean this.

In any way Demand Media repr. is not so cooperative.

Also let's don't forget that the investment of time is priceless.

I didn't have to loose even 10 min from the creation of the animated avatar of my namepros profile if this name was not a main domain and not a typo of enom.

I underline once more that for me the name means ke(y)nom (key for names).

Keynom.com is also registered and scheduled to redirect to kenom.com when I had time develop it more..

Comment #39

ENom sees it as a typo and they have a trademark and legitiment argument. YOu pretty much have no agument in this case. I mean you are using it in pretty much the same manner as eNom itself. If I were you I would comply with eNom and just use Keynom.com as your site. Honestly it's more unique and I'm pretty sure they would have anything to say about that...

Comment #40

CS reps and any kind of reps are actually representatives of a company.

If the company is not responsible for their representatives and accepts their mistakes at least to the point to say "sorry it was our mistake" then I think it's unacceptable to hear them say that it was registered in bad faith.

We don't talk about verbal or phone communication.

There is a specific support ticket with enom's email headers.

If someone says OK and you invest time to make something based on that OK is not a lesson that i'm forced to learn but the company that used the CS person.

Notice all the replies of DM repr..

1. "No one by that name currently works at Demand Media, Inc...".

2. "I do not have record of your conversation with Ms. May Blatherwick as she no longer is employed here at eNom, Inc. Your alleged conversation with this employee occurred over two years ago".

She doesn't accept or as she says can't verify the data I provided.

(I have complete records from 1995 but enom don't have the support tickets of 2005).

Also as a sidenote do you see any legal email form at the ETP control panel or generally ? .

I tried to find something today, there was none and I remember correct that wasn't there in 2005 too.

From what I read I think I should start a poll and let people vote about how vague my question and her reply was from the first place.

This will help me understand if it was my mistake or enom's mistake before I proceed to anything else (however if you have a lead for enom's manager will be good too).

At least I accept my mistakes (even grammar mistakes) as I see enom can't..

Comment #41

I'm with you on your interpretation.

Reading her response, I took it to mean "go ahead and register a domain.

If it is available".

It was not permission to use it for a domain name business which a.

Customer rep could not grant anyway.

Patrick..

Comment #42

From the response you originally, got, I think it's obvious that the rep was saying you could use it for domain registrations as you currently are.

If you're not going to hand over the domain, I would make your primary domain name keynom.com instead of kenom. And don't transfer them the domain name unless you're getting fair compensation - just redirect it somewhere else...

Comment #43

Just a note.

Dave posted this after his primary reply you quoted :.

"I originally understood that reply to exactly mean it can be registered, but I've since re-read it and saw it rather differently"..

Comment #44

There is a Chinese Chef on UK TV called Ken Hom. He would appear to have far more right (not much) to have a whinge about your DN than enom. They have presuambly TM'd the name enom wrt domain registration but not everything. IMHO Park it with a keyword that has nothing to with DN reg and chinese cookery and next time dont email companies for their opinions about tm infringements!..

Comment #45

Your intentions were good but unfortunately you asked the wrong person.

You should have contacted the Legal Department.

It's not reasonable to think a CS rep could provide a legal answer.

Beyond that, after reading the emails you posted it's quite clear you knew you were asking a legal question but the CS rep did not..

[/B].

Good question.

Wrong person asked..

As Dave Zan said elsewhere she's telling you if a domain is available you.

Can register it.

She was not green lighting your usage of the domain..

That was your mistake.

You asked the wrong person and misinterpreted her response.

Plus you knew you were dancing on hot coals..

This is not a legal opinion but after reading thru thousands of WIPO.

Decisions, I do not think you have any chance to keep this domain if.

Demand Media files a UDRP.

You should consider yourself lucky if they choose that route instead of filing.

A court case.

I hope you will cut your losses while you can.

Maybe if you reason with them , you can get some concession under the circumstances..

You said copyright but meant trademark.

Sorry too say but that admission was you putting a nail in your coffin..

[/QUOTE]As a trademark holder,Demand Media is required to protect it's trademark rights as well as it's consumers from confusion or deception, and it is believed that your registration of the domain <kenom.com> is a deliberate attempt to divert customers seeking eNom domain registrar services to your site.[/QUOTE].

She's telling you the truth.

There's a new Sheriff in town.

Demand Media bought Enom.

They are required by law to protect their trademark...or risk losing it.

And this is NOT a case of trademark overreach or overzealousness..

People come and go all the time in every business and including here on Name Pros.

It's not reasonable that you question this..

She held out an olive branch.

Reason with her (them).

Maybe you can get some consideration but don't push it. they have the winning hand.

I don't mean to seem harsh on you.

I think it's a series of unfortunate incidents.

Good intentions mixed with misinterpretation, misunderstanding,.

Language gap ,etc.

I hope you reach a satisfactory if not happy conclusion.

Good luck..

Patrick..

Comment #46

Thanks Patrick (tricolorro) for your time to quote and reply with such detail to these discussion points.

And of course thanks everybody for their participation..

Comment #47

Demand Media bought Enom.

That means they bought (own) the Trademark also- unless that was.

Excluded from the sale...which it was not.

You think wrong.

She only gave permission to register an unregistered domain.

She did not and was not in a position to give any legal permissions.

Patrick dotnom,.

Yes I saw that after I read thru all the postings.

I still believe she meant you could register an available domain.

You should realize who you were communicating with.

She was a CS rep and your question was not a typical one but you can see she tried her best to answer you.

After reading thru all your postings here and your responses, it's quite.

Clear to me that you intended no harm and tried to do the right thing by getting an okay.

It's unfortunate the way things have worked out.

You indicated in another posting here that you do have legal representation.

I suppose the best course of action would be to follow their advice.

I know you meant well and are not a typosquatter so all I can do is wish.

You a very good outcome.

Patrick.

DotNom you are very welcome.

I must say I am very impressed with your attitude and composure.

I know you are going thru a difficult situation but yet you have taken the.

High road and have been very cool, calm and collected in your responses.

Even if someone (like me) post something that may be at odds with your position.

You are a role model for proper decorum for all domain name forums.

Patrick..

Comment #48

If you're communicating with Sarah Akhtar, she's eNom's general counsel and.

Demand Media's senior vice president for legal and business affairs...

Comment #49

It's not uncommon for companies to "hide" their legal departments. It's not unreasonable to assume asking a CS rep a legal question would simply respond "We will forward this to our legal department. Please wait for their response" and then forward it to the proper person.

This whole part made me laugh a bit. Which is followed up with: So in one breath it's a demand for transfer and the next it's an attempt to reach an amicable resolution...lol.

Call her on that Amicable Resolution crap and tell her that the DEMAND to transfer without compensation to you for this trouble is not acceptable.

I can almost guarantee you lose a UDRP. But I believe in a civil case they would lose because you didn't act in bad-faith (my opinion remember). Let's see if she is willing to spend the $2k for UDRP or work for that Amicable Resolution she speaks about. I would ask her about that. It's HER statement. See if they are willing to at least offer you some Enom credits. At LEAST they can do that...

Comment #50

Isn't there anybody who can give some input to the question above?.

Here's another question..

Would the OP be able to keep his kenom.com domain if he registers his trademark for selling domain names bla bla bla.. I mean, enom has a trademark for a specific area. Then trademark kenom in the same specific area as enom. Now the OP would have a legitimate trademark kenom...

Comment #51

Sorry. But I just don't get this claim. Did you take some links down? Now. Lets look at their Trademark.. I don't see anything in there about selling second-hand domains in the aftermarket. Which is the sole purpose (afaict) of kenom.com...

Comment #52

I'm not sure if ACPA strictly requires bad faith intent: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/s...5000-.html IIRC the eBay-Perfume Bay dispute didn't involve bad faith showing. One way to think of this is like the SwapNames-SnapNames thread. While the.

Latter doesn't have selling domain names listed in their registration, they might.

Be ready to show their trademark has acquired distinctiveness that confusion.

Might occur.

Likelihood of confusion is basically what domain-trademark disputes are about..

And that's one avenue eNom/Demand Media can explore, PowerUp.

Essentially, dotnom, you seem to think you can hold eNom "accountable" just.

From what their rep said. I don't know how you can do that given that eNom.

And Demand Media have no obligations to you to begin with.

While you don't necessarily have obligations to them either, unfortunately you.

Have given them grounds to hold you accountable for your actions...

Comment #53



IMHO. SnapNames reverse hijacked SwapNames. They won only because they filed (or threaten to file) a lawsuit...

Comment #54

As I said in that thread, can it be concidered "confusingly similar"? Since they were in the same field, it can reasonably asssumed to be confusingly similar...

Comment #55

I think that could be debated. They'd also have to prove 2) No right or legitimate interest, and 3) Bad faith registration. I think Snap's decision to strong-arm them with a lawsuit, was possibly seen as a more reliable option than taking them to arbitration...

Comment #56

See how easy is to find and talk with legal representative without reporting the exact issue to the customer representative.

First contact of the support dept for the validation of previous support ticket.

>> Me 02/13/2008 11:52 AM.

Dears Sirs can you please find and verify an old support ticket you sent me because I can't find it at 'my tickets' ? .

I really need this one.

The details of this tickets are .....

>> Response (Michael G.) 02/13/2008 07:11 PM.

Hello, Thank you for contacting Technical Support regarding this issue. In regards to the issue with this ticket, I am unable to find any information on this ticket as you have requested, can you please let me know the details of the issue so I can look further into this matter for you? Please let me know if you have any additional questions regarding this matter. Thank you for your continued partnership, we appreciate you working with us.

>> Me 02/14/2008 01:33 AM.

Do you have the support ticket database from 2005 ? .

If you do please make a query there.

It will be appreciated.

>> Response (Michael G.) 02/14/2008 08:36 AM.

Thank you for contacting Technical Support regarding this issue. In regards to the issue with this case, unfortunately I am unable to find this case number in the older support system, can you please provide me with the information as to what you were requesting from this ticket? Please let me know if you have any additional questions regarding this matter. Thank you for your continued partnership, we appreciate you working with us.

>> Me 02/20/2008 02:15 AM.

Thank you Michael for your time.

I think you will help me more if you can tell me the email of your CEO and the Legal or Sales Manager because there is an issue that must be solved and I think these are the only two people that can talk to.

Response (Michael G.) 02/20/2008 03:35 PM.

Thank you for contacting Technical Support regarding this issue. In regards to the issue with this matter, you seem to refuse to tell me what the issue is so I am unable to assist you with any matter. If you would like to tell me what the underlying issue is so I can look into getting it resolved I would be more than happy to assist you. However as you refuse to provide me with this information I must close out this ticket if you cannot provide this to me. Please let me know if you have any additional questions regarding this matter. Thank you for your continued partnership, we appreciate you working with us...

Comment #57

They wouldn't even give you contacts to their legal manager or whatever?..

Comment #58

Yes my friend you understood correctly.

Let's assume that this gentleman wants to see the exact details to forward me to the correct legal dept. (do they have many?) but this doesn't look so helpful.

Also as you see they CAN'T verify my support ticket with the OLD support system (in 2005). I wonder why..

Comment #59

Dotnom you should contact a CS Rep and ask them the same questions you asked back in 2005 and see what they say. Dont bring anything recent up, just act as if it was in 2005 and you had the idea to reg the name. Just curious to see what happens...

Comment #60

Terrible idea. They might give a totally different response and that would only show that the original CS made a mistake and it's a single out-of-step with policy the person committed. Often in situation like this if they go to court a companies policies will come into play. Did Enom make it difficult to contact legal representation? Who knows but I think they did. Legal rarely wants to deal with email questions imho. They normally have only a phone contact and it's usually tough to get that info. Lawyers actually have an insiders way to find contacts (bar association) that normal folks can't use...

Comment #61

I told the representative that is for a legal issue of a "typo name".

I try to find one person responsible for this and present him the case and not play again with representatives..

Comment #62

So what if they give him the response that it is ok? Would this give him evidence of consent? Would they give correct information this time?.

Just like in my earlier posts I stated that CS Reps dont know anything. To be honest I think that he is totally wrong in this situation. He should have made it 900% clear what he was doing with the rep or better yet contacted someone that had athorization to grant permission. This is all because of poor communication and misunderstandings.

I understand that CS Reps obviously represent companies and you feel you have cheated, but you should have clarified with the COMPANY not with the rep...

Comment #63

That's pretty much what caused this whole thing to happen.

Someone start lining up at Burger King to ask their cashier if you can use their.

Logo for your design. If the cashier says yes and you proceed, see if you can.

Use that against their lawyers if they go after you for copyright infringement..

(after firing their cashier, maybe...)..

Comment #64

Dotnom.

I don't know if this will be of any help to you but it may explain why.

Demand Media started going after domains they consider trademark infringing.

This is from Domain Tools blog, May 09,2007:.

"eNoms Sobrenombre.com mistake http://blog.domaintools.com/2007/05/...recom-mistake/.

Patrick..

Comment #65

I understood your example but I think it's not quite accurate.

We're talking about 4 emails with corporate signature headers and full id of their support ticket system I don't think it's the same with a cashier at a BK and his verbal info.

But participating to your example if the boss is not present (absence of legal dept. email) and the cashier says you can take the XX free for example, when someone else sees the error he will either says "sorry it's was our mistake" or "we apologize and take this XX for free instead" rather than "i think you lie pay us or we will sue you".

If you check DM repr. didn't admit that our conversation with the support is real.

- She can't verify my support ticket.

- "Your alleged conversation with this employee".

......

(thanks stub and tricolorro for your resources)..

Comment #66

No matter which way you look at it it was an error by an employee that did not have autorization to give permission. I think that this is what Dave Zan was trying to say with his example...

Comment #67

And the contents of those 4 emails with corporate signature headers and full.

ID of their support ticket system mean...what exactly? They replied to all your.

Queries so far, but have they specifically said they've given you permission to.

Begin with?.

If you want someone to decide whether the answer to the question is indeed.

Giving consent, that's what judges are for when two parties can't agree. But...

It might not produce a good feeling if the other party is in a better position to.

Prove their argument, possibly anyway.

Now I'll agree that it's very humbling if someone apologizes for any confusion.

Arising from a situation, even if they really didn't do anything wrong. But you.

May find it shocking that people aren't required or compelled to do that, nor.

Do they even have to be accomodating if it's especially warranted. Bingo. Unless one is paying that employee's salary, or has some degree of an.

Ownership interest in the company that employee's working for, does s/he get.

To dictate what that employee's responsibilities should and shouldn't be?.

BTW, I wonder what's the further point of this discussion since it's been a full.

Week this thread started and you've pretty much made up your mind, dotnom..

Demand Media might proceed to make an example out of you unless you two.

Figure and work out something...fast...

Comment #68

Just screw eNom, ignore their messages, and let them spend thousands in court only to have you win...

Comment #69

Given the domain name and it's content, eNom doesn't necessarily have zero.

Chances of losing...

Comment #70

Frankly I think claiming an inherent TM violation for "kenom" is a bit ludicrous. Trademark law isn't about quantifying letters, it's about protecting trade marks. To think that a substantial number of customers or potential customers would unknowingly prefix a simple four-letter pronounceable with a hard consonant is rather silly.

And certainly, corporations are to some extent responsible for the screwups of their employees in cases like these. Whether or not the employee still works for the company generally isn't relevant. The entire company isn't directly at fault, but neither are you. The relation between corporate and individual responsibility has always been fuzzy and contentious both inside and outside of legal circles, but issues like your exchange certainly hold pertinence. It's not reasonable to expect a CS rep to hold legal expertise, but it's certainly reasonable to expect them to forward the inquiry to an appropriate location if they don't can't answer questions (which were quite clearly legal or as least quasi-legal inquiries). Her response was certainly not an explicit permission, but it was enough to mislead you.

That said, using kenom.com as a place for selling domain names is very questionable. I would at least move the site to keynom.com or another location and redirect kenom.com there. The pragmatic thing to do would be to give in; it's really a personal choice if you want to hold out but at the very least stop selling domains from kenom.com...

Comment #71

Cross post from another forum from Dave Zan and my reply below (i paste them just because they add the clarification that the communication is from their support ticket for ETPs).

Originally Posted by sweetfunny.

The employee is acting on behalf on eNom.com and what they say is binding.

Dave Zan posted :.

That can bind if, say, the OP contracted with eNom to do business. But...the.

OP didn't agree to do business with them.

If the OP wants a surefire answer as to whether the former rep's reply to his query is equal to willfull permission from eNom, that's something only a judge can authoritatively say. Beyond that, I don't know how you can compel one to do what you want when they have no agreements or obligations to you.

My reply :.

Dave I don't know what do you mean when you say that the "OP didn't agree to do business with them" The communition I pasted from the first post was the support ticket from the priority support system for ETPs (eNom Technology Provider) and for people who don't know this is the top level of reseller status at enom.

This priority system is supposed to be quick and responsible because you provide support for the rest of the reseller chain beneath you.

Even at THEIR ETP control panel at the info section there is the "Organization Name : KENOM" and the "Website URL : www.kenom.com" for years now.

Also a sidenote, Kenom.com was not registered under enom but under Domainsite.com.

When Kenom.com started to get some traffic that was the time I received the C&D email.

I wait for an update to my latest email, I will let the board informed about this issue..

Comment #72

Ah, my bad since I forgot you're an ETP. Better read your ETP agreement (or.

Whatever it's called) and other associated policies regarding their intellectual.

Property, though.

Frankly, I'm rather amazed this is still ongoing...

Comment #73

Final Outcome :.

With the full text of the support ticket they withdrew their demand to hand them over the domain and accepted my suggestion to change topic. However it's interesting that they see KEYNOM.com as similar to enom too.

"1. Please do not use the KENOM.COM domain name for any domain related services or any other services that might be confusingly similar to eNom, Inc. Demand Media reserves the right to object to your use of KENOM.COM in the future should it find it necessary to do so.

2. Please do not use the KEYNOM.COM domain for domain related services either. KEYNOM.COM is substantially similar to ENOM.COM and may cause consumer confusion. We suggest using a domain that is entirely different. Demand Media also reserves the right to take action in the future regarding KEYNOM.COM if necessary."..

Comment #74

Yes but they requested not to be used for domain name services..

Comment #75


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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