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Upgrading from P&S to DSLR - advice please!
Hi Everyone,.

My experience with photography is limited. I have an old Canon powershot S45 (4mb P&S I bought in 2002)..

My wife & I are travelling through Europe in June / July and I'm thinking about purchasing a DSLR to take with me..

Question is - I'm not sure which one!.

Assuming most of our photography will be scenery / hand held and maybe some family portraits when we visit them.. I have a budget of around $2k for body + lense..

There are so many opinions on here, I was thinking something like the Nikon D300, or the Sony A700.....

For me, IQ is king. I don't have alot of patience with post-processing photos, I don't have the skills. Ease of use is also important, I don't want to have to fiddle with settings all the time..

Can someone provide some suggestions? (doesn't need to be the two I suggested above, either).....

Comments (47)

The D300 is a prolevel camera and vastly overpriced for what it sounds like you need..

But then again. $2000 is a silly budgt for a beginner, but there seem to be lots of people willing to pay this for a camera that is miles beyond any expectation of the owners' capabilities..

No downside to it; it has a P for Program button just llike lots of other cameras..

But can you tell us why a DSLR when you can buy any of half a dozen really good, quite small, much lighter one-piece cameras with longish zoom lenses that are easier to carry?.

Nikon's 18-200mm lens is a great travel lens for any Nikon body, including the D300..

BAK..

Comment #1

Not the d300. Get one of the entry level dslr for ease of use and best jpgs out of camera. IQ will be most dependent on your skill and the quality of the lens and not on the dslr body. Any of the brands will work for you - you might like something with live view - Sony, Canon, I'm not sure what other brands have this. Ergomomics (and maybe live view) ought to be the biggest factor in your decision. You might also want to consider if you want a walk around lens that covers a big range such as 18-200mm.



Your budget is more than sufficient for your needs. You'll be able to get one of the newest model dslrs and a high quality lens...

Comment #2

I kind of agree the D300 might be overkill. Think about the Canon 450D/Xti (40D instead if you can budget for it as it is a nice handling camera) and use the money you saved to get a decent walk-around lens like the f 4 24-105 iS USM L..

John.Please visit me at:http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/backtothebridgehttp://www.pbase.com/johnfr/digital_dartmoor..

Comment #3

I would consider the Pentax K100D or the Pentax K200D..

Visit my photoblog: http://www.fotoblography.com/..

Comment #4

Fademan wrote:.

Hi Everyone,.

My experience with photography is limited. I have an old Canonpowershot S45 (4mb P&S I bought in 2002)..

My wife & I are travelling through Europe in June / July and I'mthinking about purchasing a DSLR to take with me..

Question is - I'm not sure which one!.

Assuming most of our photography will be scenery / hand held andmaybe some family portraits when we visit them.. I have a budget ofaround $2k for body + lense..

There are so many opinions on here, I was thinking something like theNikon D300, or the Sony A700.....

For me, IQ is king. I don't have alot of patience withpost-processing photos, I don't have the skills. Ease of use is alsoimportant, I don't want to have to fiddle with settings all the time..

Can someone provide some suggestions? (doesn't need to be the two isuggested above, either)....

Hi.

The best jpeg camera would probably be a Fuji S5 or S3 ...many wedding pros use them shooting jpegs..

You really should try as many cameras as you can to see what is right for you...any camera will do a decent job..

The D300 would probably be over kill for you. The pentax K20d is more limited than a D300...slower auto focus and slower frames per second but is starting to get some very nice reviews, as is the Sony A700..

I think you could easily go down a notch and get an entry orearlier mid level camera, any from Olympus,Canon Nikon, Sony, Pentax or Samsung will be fine..

Maybe a K10d from pentax would not be for you (they can be set to do wonderful jpegs but that is not the cameras strength...a K100d super would be good, as would a Nikon D40 etc etc..

Neil..

Comment #5

Unlike some, I don't think spending a lot of money is silly for you. You already know you love photography, so get something great and you'll love it more. I love it even more now that I have nicer gear. Easier to use for me, with better results..

However, one caveatdon't expect the SLR to be automatically better than what you've got. I made that mistake. I thought I could point and shoot a DSLR and get better results than my p&s. Didn't happen..

I am a Canon user and really love the lenses. That is the main thing you want is a good fast lens (two if you can swing it)..

If you decide Canon, I would recommend the 450D/XSi body (maybe kit as I've heard decent reviews from the 18-55 IS)..

Here are some inexpensive/quality lens suggestions:.

17-40 f/4L ($600 or so)70-200 f/4L (similar price)85mm 1.8 ($350) great for portraits. Really great..

50mm 1.8 ($80) you just get one of these if you have a Canon camera because they're so cheap. Good way to learn photography with a prime lens..

You could actually get the 450D body with the 17-40L, 50mm 1.8, and 70-200 4L for about your budget..

Though the 40D may be nicer for you. Bigger, feels better to me, and more professional. It is about $300 more if you just get the bodies, so you may not be able to do two L lenses. But I think you could do the 40D with the 18-55 IS plus the 70-200 4L for your budget..

These are US Amazon.com prices right now:.

40D ($1089)15-55 IS ($175)70-200 4L ($575).

That's about $1840. Enough to get some accessories. you'd have a nice kit..

My thoughts..

I don't know anything about photography. I just like to press the shutter button and hear that sound...

Comment #6

Fademan wrote:.

For me, IQ is king. I don't have alot of patience withpost-processing photos, I don't have the skills. Ease of use is alsoimportant, I don't want to have to fiddle with settings all the time..

Can someone provide some suggestions? (doesn't need to be the two isuggested above, either)....

You don't want to do post processing or learn settings. Sounds like a Point and Shoot to me..

The nearest thing to an all purpose camera in the DSLR arena would be a Nikon D40 or D60 with an 18-200 zoom. Those two cameras take great J-Pegs out of the box. That lens will never have to come off the camera. To that I'd add an SB400 flash and be done with it. You be in for $1200-1500 depending on the camera, a D40 or D60...

Comment #7

$2000 seems a bit much to spend on a beginners camera. You could get a Nikon D40 for much less. I have heard very good things about the D40. I've also heard it's very easy to use...

Comment #8

If you don't want to learn photoprocessing and intend to use your new camera as a p&s, then you would be better to buy a good p&S..

Jerryhttp://jchoate.zenfolio.com/..

Comment #9

BAK wrote:.

But can you tell us why a DSLR when you can buy any of half a dozenreally good, quite small, much lighter one-piece cameras with longishzoom lenses that are easier to carry?.

BAK.

Firstly - thanks for all the replies so far, lots of options springing up..

I'm considering a DSLR as a long(ish) term investment, something I can "grow" into as my photography gets better. My wife enjoys taking photos and has done various courses (including picture framing) but has let it slide over the past few years. Its been with film cameras so I expect that the learning curve will be just as steep with the new technology and capabilities..

With my initial comments around "fiddling with settings", I was considering the fact that we'll be travelling in 5 weeks and it would probably take more time than that to really understand how to get the best photos out of any DSLR that I purchase - so the best IQ out of the box would be preferable..

So I don't mind buying a higher-than-entry-level DSLR, if it will see the test of time and provide excellent photos as we learn...

Comment #10

Jchoate wrote:.

If you don't want to learn photoprocessing and intend to use your newcamera as a p&s, then you would be better to buy a good p&S..

This is a frequently repeated standpoint. Let's examine it a bit..

The advantages (roughly) of a dSLR are:.

1. Large sensor, meaning better dynamic range, lower noise, higher resolution in anything but the best circumstances and an overall cleaner image.2. Lower shutter lag.3. Better manual controls.4. Fast RAW capture..

The disadvantages are (roughly):1. Larger2. Heavier3. Focus points rather than contrast-detect focus based on entire image.4. Less in-camera processing on average..

Now, let's see where this leaves the OP. He's obviously content with the weight and size, or he'd be asking for something compact. He's not going to use manual controls now (maybe in the future), so those and RAW mean nothing. We end up with:.

Advantages:1. Large sensor etc.2. Lower shutter lag.Disadvantages:1. Attention needs to be paid to focus points.2. Images will be less "punchy" on average..

If one won't pay attention to focus points things won't work out on the cameras with just three points at least, but let's assume that people will adapt to this - work with me here. As for image processing, entry level dSLRs are turning their attention towards "consumers" - Nikon and Olympus for example default to attractive JPG results in the entry level models, and others can't be far behind..

My point is starting to emerge: no matter how one uses a dSLR it will still have a larger sensor and better image quality coupled with lower shutter lag. Yes, some advantages will be diminished or eliminated by not putting in the maximum effort, but saying that it puts down the SLR on the level of a P&S is an exaggeration at best and snobbery at worst. Even ignoring the image quality differences, the fast handling/shutter lag will be a boon to photographing people, which we know most cameras are used for.http://flickr.com/photos/iskender..

Comment #11

Fademan wrote:.

I'm considering a DSLR as a long(ish) term investment, something Ican "grow" into as my photography gets better. My wife enjoys takingphotos and has done various courses (including picture framing) buthas let it slide over the past few years. Its been with film camerasso I expect that the learning curve will be just as steep with thenew technology and capabilities..

With my initial comments around "fiddling with settings", I wasconsidering the fact that we'll be travelling in 5 weeks and it wouldprobably take more time than that to really understand how to get thebest photos out of any DSLR that I purchase - so the best IQ out ofthe box would be preferable..

I too think that the D300 is perhaps a bit much for you at this juncture...plus, you can't get it and a good lens for $2000. I'll second the D40 suggestion...get that and the 18-200VR lens. This is a great starting dSLR package...not a perfect camera/lens, but has quite good IQ and is easy to use. It will cost you about half of your budget. Consider getting them used...try Craig's List? I see D40's with the kit lens for less than $400 all the time and the 18-200 lens for around $650..

ANY dSLR will require you to select some settings ONCE...they simply don't come adjusted from the factory. But this is easy to do. There are people here on dpr that can suggest good settings...you don't have to develop your own!.

Whatever camera you get, "join" the appropriate model-specific forum and ask for advice..

So I don't mind buying a higher-than-entry-level DSLR, if it will seethe test of time and provide excellent photos as we learn..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #12

The new K20D looks to be the one. It is less than the D300 by quite a bit. It may not have the high frame rate but it sure has the image quality. Also, Pentax glass is fantastic...

Comment #13

Fademan wrote:.

BAK wrote:.

But can you tell us why a DSLR when you can buy any of half a dozenreally good, quite small, much lighter one-piece cameras with longishzoom lenses that are easier to carry?.

BAK.

Firstly - thanks for all the replies so far, lots of optionsspringing up..

I'm considering a DSLR as a long(ish) term investment, something Ican "grow" into as my photography gets better. My wife enjoys takingphotos and has done various courses (including picture framing) buthas let it slide over the past few years. Its been with film camerasso I expect that the learning curve will be just as steep with thenew technology and capabilities..

With my initial comments around "fiddling with settings", I wasconsidering the fact that we'll be travelling in 5 weeks and it wouldprobably take more time than that to really understand how to get thebest photos out of any DSLR that I purchase - so the best IQ out ofthe box would be preferable..

I don't think there is such a thing as best out of box IQ. You have to see what lens is put on that body. The best in camera processing will be found with the entry level dslr because the manufacturers assume that many users will not post process and so the in camera processing produces images that are vivid, contrasty and sharp. With semi pro models the manufacturers assume that users will post process and the jpgs need some work to match the out of camera look of the entry level models..

So I don't mind buying a higher-than-entry-level DSLR, if it will seethe test of time and provide excellent photos as we learn..

Camera bodies are not built to stand the test of time. The bodies are throw aways (the lenses are an investment). Technology is advancing rapidly making todays models out of date in a few years. The life of the camera body is defined by shutter releases and therefore has a limited life..

An entry level dslr will be somewhat easier to use and produce the best out of camera jpgs. A semi pro model maybe more difficult to use and require post processing..

Both cameras will produce high IQ with quality lenses. Go for a semi pro model if the additional features are something you need or plan to use...

Comment #14

Fademan wrote:.

Hi Everyone,.

My experience with photography is limited. I have an old Canonpowershot S45 (4mb P&S I bought in 2002)..

My wife & I are travelling through Europe in June / July and I'mthinking about purchasing a DSLR to take with me..

Question is - I'm not sure which one!.

Assuming most of our photography will be scenery / hand held andmaybe some family portraits when we visit them.. I have a budget ofaround $2k for body + lense..

There are so many opinions on here, I was thinking something like theNikon D300, or the Sony A700.....

For me, IQ is king. I don't have alot of patience withpost-processing photos, I don't have the skills. Ease of use is alsoimportant, I don't want to have to fiddle with settings all the time..

Can someone provide some suggestions? (doesn't need to be the two isuggested above, either)....

The lens has a lot more to do with IQ than the body. So, start by picking out a lens or lenses. You might want to get real wide angle and probably image stabilization..

For a single lens, consider the Nikon 16-85 and a D80, D200, or D300. Again, the bodies have minimal impact on IQ..

If you don't mind changing lenses, the Canon 10-22 and 17-85 make a good combo that includes extremely wide angle. The 450D or 40D would make good bodies for that..

As for PP, it can't really be avoided with a DSLR. Try Adobe Lightroom, which can automate the process...

Comment #15

Hi There! I was where you are at right now about 3months ago. I remember the Nikon D300 was my first choice but kept researching and researching. When I FINALLY decided on a camera it was the Canon 40D. Its now 3 months later and feel great about my purchase and have added some great lens'. You can really drive yourself crazy. From all the posts and forums I read, it wouldnt be normal if you werent overwhelmed! There is sooo much to learn.

You can google him and see little clips of him on youtube. Very easy to follow. One more thing, my friend does wedding videography, and has noticed an enormous amount of the photographers he is working with for the day are carrying the Canon 40D. You need to get a good body...not too expensive..not too cheap, then focus on some great lens. That is the information I have learned in the last couple of months..

Comment #16

Fademan wrote:.

Hi Everyone,.

My experience with photography is limited. I have an old Canonpowershot S45 (4mb P&S I bought in 2002)..

My wife & I are travelling through Europe in June / July and I'mthinking about purchasing a DSLR to take with me..

Question is - I'm not sure which one!.

Assuming most of our photography will be scenery / hand held andmaybe some family portraits when we visit them.. I have a budget ofaround $2k for body + lense..

There are so many opinions on here, I was thinking something like theNikon D300, or the Sony A700.....

For me, IQ is king. I don't have alot of patience withpost-processing photos, I don't have the skills. Ease of use is alsoimportant, I don't want to have to fiddle with settings all the time..

Can someone provide some suggestions? (doesn't need to be the two isuggested above, either)....

Sony A700+Sony 18-250mm lens.

What I've found with the Sony A700 is that I am relying more and more on straight-out-of-the-camera jpgs because the jpgs are great. And with the Dynamic Range Optimization feature, jpgs often give me better results than the time-consuming post processing that RAW files require..

I don't know prices in Australia, but perhaps the Sony A700 combined with the recently released Sony 18-250 lens would meet your budget and see you through your vacation, plus provide the basis for future growth as you get more into the hobby. That lens has an extraordinary range, yet yields really sharp contrasty images.http://www.alphamountworld.com/reviews/sony-18-250mm-f35-63-review.

You could also look for some inexpensive used Minolta lenses. The 50mm f/1.7 usually sells for about $75 and is super sharp..

Of course all the lenses are stabilized because the sensor is stabilized..

Many folks have commented on how intuitive the controls are on the A700..

Popular Photography-.

Handling and controls: Excellent. What looks like a four-way jog dial on the back is actually a joystick for navigating through the control panel, and it's quick and easy to use..

Imaging Resource-.

The Sony A700 will be a more than competent contender in the market. Better, our experience says it should help photographers make great images, which is more what a camera is about than doing well in some spec comparison table..

Dpreview-.

"One thing that is clear when you start shooting with the A700 is that Sony has worked hard on performance; it feels very responsive, button presses for menus or image playback occurring instantly and there's no feeling of lag when changing settings. Other performance criteria such as continuous shooting speed, buffering and write speeds were all very good, with a pretty blazing 34 MB/sec write speed with SanDisk Extreme IV cards. I should also make special mention of that new high resolution LCD monitor which really does make a difference to the whole shoot & review experience."..

Comment #17

Don't sell yourself short underestimating how much you can learn in five weeks. That's how long ago I bought my Canon 400D and I've learned a ton since then. The pictures I take today are many times better than any I ever took with my old P&S (which was a fairly decent Panasonic Lumix thing). If I were in your shoes (or got my hands on your wallet) I would get a Canon 40D with the 24-105L and the EF-S 10-22, then whatever tele you want with what's left over. The wide-wide is because you are travelling, and nothing's more fun than huge wide views of the cities and landscapes you visit..

David..

Comment #18

If you have enough money buy the cheapest body you can live with and the best lens you can afford.As a beginner I would start with a Nikon D40 and Nikon 16-85 mm VR.VictorBucuresti, Romaniahttp://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/victor_petcu/http://picasaweb.google.com/teodor.nitica/..

Comment #19

It sounds like you are serious (unlike many others) about buying a dslr. If that is the case, then I agree with Victorbuy an entry-level Canon, Nikon, Pentax, or whatever, and match it with the best lenses you can afford. For your trip to Europe, I would get a good wide angle, a low-light lens, a speedlight, and all the accessories that go with them. And I would do so right away so that you can practice before your trip..

Jerryhttp://jchoate.zenfolio.com/..

Comment #20

Thanks everyone for the advice. It looks like I'm down to the following three:.

Canon 40D / 450D with the 24-105L and the EF-S 10-22Nikon D40 and Nikon 16-85 mm VRSony A700+Sony 18-250mm lens.

Some random comments:.

What features does the 40D have over the 450D, that make it more expensive? The review compares 40D with the 30D, the pentax K10D and Nikon D200, not with the 450D...I'm assuming it has less features (ie. ISO range, shutter speeds, etc?) Is that all? Is image quality the same?.

Nikon - I'm afraid of going down the Nikon path simply because everything is so expensive! (fully aware that you get what you pay for - but is that true at the pro-sumer level?).

Sony 18-250 - how good is this lense, really? Surely a lense with that sort of range would not produce the same quality images as the CZ 24-70?.

I think I need to go into a store and handle each of these cameras this weekend. at the moment though, I'm leaning towards the Canon 40D / 450D...

Comment #21

MaryGierth wrote:.

An entry level dslr will be somewhat easier to use and produce thebest out of camera jpgs. A semi pro model maybe more difficult touse and require post processing..

Mary, I agree with all your points except this one. I think the differences are simply in the default settings, not the in-camera processing capabilities. In fact, the "semi-pro" models often have better/finer choices...but the user has to MAKE those choices...at least once..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #22

Chuxter wrote:.

MaryGierth wrote:.

An entry level dslr will be somewhat easier to use and produce thebest out of camera jpgs. A semi pro model maybe more difficult touse and require post processing..

Mary, I agree with all your points except this one. I think thedifferences are simply in the default settings, not the in-cameraprocessing capabilities. In fact, the "semi-pro" models often havebetter/finer choices...but the user has to MAKE those choices...atleast once..

Lot of people say the Nikon d50 jpgs are very difficult to reproduce with another camera including the D70, D80, d40 etc. Do you think you can reproduce one cameras jpgs with another model by changing the settings?.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #23

Fademan wrote:.

Thanks everyone for the advice. It looks like I'm down to thefollowing three:.

Canon 40D / 450D with the 24-105L and the EF-S 10-22Nikon D40 and Nikon 16-85 mm VRSony A700+Sony 18-250mm lens.

You got these suggestions from 3 different people. Each had his own set of requirements. I doubt that any of these body/lens "kits" is right for you? They are certainly different from each other!.

For example, if you want a "walkaround" lens like an 18-250, then they are available for ALL camera makes. If you want a super-wide zoom like a 10-22, then they can be found for all brands..

My point is that your 3 combos in your "short list" are vastly different, thus not comparable. That signals that you are still confused..

I would suggest one of two approaches: A starting body with a super-zoom lens or a mid-range body with two lenses (one for very WA and one for everything else)..

Approach 1....

Get a D40, 350D, A200, or K100D. Add an 18-200/250 lens of your choice. Remember that Tamron, Sigma, and Tokina make great lenses too!.

Approach 2....

Get a D80, 40D, A300, or K10D. Add a 10-20 and 18-135 lenses of your choice.Remember that Tamron, Sigma, and Tokina make great lenses too!.

Pick the body by feel...get the one that feels best to you. Ignore brand-centric advice!.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #24

[snip].

Sony 18-250 - how good is this lense, really? Surely a lense withthat sort of range would not produce the same quality images as theCZ 24-70?.

You're right that you get a lot more quality from the CZ 24-70mm..

I have both. The Zeiss 24-70mm is likely to go down in history as a classic. But it costs as much as your entire budget. The 18-250 costs 1/4 the price. It's main negative is that it's low light AF performance is weak..

You need something for your upcoming vacation, but you want it to be the basis for an outstanding future kit..

One strategy is to start with quality lenses and an entry level body, then later upgrade the body..

The other strategy is to go with a top quality body, and later acquire quality lenses..

All three of the main manufacturers (Sony, NIkon and Canon) offer a top quality 24-70mm and a top quality 70-200mm lens that could form the basis of an outstanding kit. So which of the strategies makes more sense?.

The one that made sense to me, which is why I bought the Sony A700, was to acquire kit that I wasn't planning on selling off in a few months. I went for a top quality body and a walkaround lens that I'd stick with and learn to exploit for at least a few years..

The Sony A700 + 18-250mm is a light lens with a super range whose only negative IMO is that it hits the 6.3 f/stop pretty early in the zoom range. This lens is available in a Tamron model for Canon, Nikon and Sony, but the Sony modified version has improved the autofocus speed and accuracy. It's a lens that I'll use for the life of the camera because it's so light and versatile. It's a good value-for-price relationship. Check out the web for reviews of the Tamron version and the updated Sony version..

Http://www.dyxum.com/reviews/lenses/reviews.asp?IDLens=415http://www.photoclubalpha.com/tamron18250/tamron18250.html.

QUALITY LENSES.

All three manufacturers offer a top quality 24-70mm lens, but only Sony has the Zeiss and only Sony's is image stabilized..

Sony's 70-200mm is currently overpriced relative to the other two manufacturers' versions, but Sony is rumoured to be coming out with a less expensive, less hand-assembled version..

COMPARING CAMERAS.

If you're comparing cameras, you should be comparing Canon's 450D to Nikon's D40 and Sony's A200-300-350. The Canon 40D compares more to the Nikon D300 and Sony A700..

On my vacations, weight is an important factor. I'm planning an 800 kilometer walk on the Camino de Santiago de Compostelo. As much as I'd like to take the Zeiss 24-70 and Sony 70-200, their combined weight is more than 5 pounds (2.3 kilos). The 18-250mm weighs 15.5 ounces (440 grams) and covers a wider range than the other two lenses combined. Guess which one I'll take with me..

Hope you really enjoy your vacation...

Comment #25

Dennis Phillips wrote:.

QUALITY LENSES.

All three manufacturers offer a top quality 24-70mm lens, but onlySony has the Zeiss and only Sony's is image stabilized..

You are correct but none of those three offer the wider, longer and sharper 12-60mm(24-120mm effective) that makes an even better walk around lens. further that , add a 50-200mm and an e510 with in body IS and dust reduction that actually works as opposed to the rest and you have a kit that can cover 24-400mm tack sharp and fast. throw a 2x in the bag and you are good to 800mm with IS with 3 lenses..

The only irony is none of your three mention can offer that , only Olympus can. the only downside to the Oly is higher ISO, bust fast glass like mentioned and IS can go towards alleviating that point. It's a very capable performer and the glass is better IMO..

Good luck with whatever you buy, the big thing is to hold it and buy it and use it... the name on it doesn't really mean alot any more as they all are capable of great results....

12-60 SWD- $85050-200 non SWD - $650e510 - $500..

Comment #26

Freealfas wrote:.

Dennis Phillips wrote:.

QUALITY LENSES.

All three manufacturers offer a top quality 24-70mm lens, but onlySony has the Zeiss and only Sony's is image stabilized..

You are correct but none of those three offer the wider, longer andsharper 12-60mm(24-120mm effective) that makes an even better walkaround lens..

Sony makes a 16-80mm f/3.5-4.5 Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T DT which is 24-120mm effective. It's a really good lens (but not quite as good as the apparently similar one on the R1...14.3-71.5mm, F2.8 - F4.8)..

I believe that the Zukio 12-60 f2.8-f4 is a very good lens, but the OP was not interested in this approach, so nobody but you mentioned it. .

The 24-70mm f2.8 lenses by N, C, and S are much better than these above lenses, primarily because they are a constant f2.8. They cost $$$. The Sony/CZ version is especially overpriced! Unless the OP needs a really fast lens (and nothing he said indicates he does), then these are too expensive and too specialized for him at this juncture. I think the 24-120 eff. range would be perfect for his vacation pix!.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #27

MaryGierth wrote:.

Chuxter wrote:.

MaryGierth wrote:.

An entry level dslr will be somewhat easier to use and produce thebest out of camera jpgs. A semi pro model maybe more difficult touse and require post processing..

Mary, I agree with all your points except this one. I think thedifferences are simply in the default settings, not the in-cameraprocessing capabilities. In fact, the "semi-pro" models often havebetter/finer choices...but the user has to MAKE those choices...atleast once..

Lot of people say the Nikon d50 jpgs are very difficult to reproducewith another camera including the D70, D80, d40 etc. Do you thinkyou can reproduce one cameras jpgs with another model by changing thesettings?.

Mary, that argument is quite a red herring!.

The question is NOT whether someone can duplicate some specific camera's JPEG output EXACTLY by adjusting another cameras built-in choices. The question is whether it's possible to generally emulate the way most P&S cameras (and some entry-level dSLRs) boost the saturation, contrast, and sharpness. My contention is that it is..

The JPEG spec allows a lot of variability. Often manufacturers use that to produce files that are smaller, yet deliver "acceptable" IQ. Unfortunately, cameras don't offer much control of the JPEG format used. I agree that IQ issues associated with the lossy JPEG format used can not be emulated (nor would anybody want to emulate them)..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #28

On my vacations, weight is an important factor. I'm planning an 800kilometer walk on the Camino de Santiago de Compostelo. As much asI'd like to take the Zeiss 24-70 and Sony 70-200, their combinedweight is more than 5 pounds (2.3 kilos). The 18-250mm weighs 15.5ounces (440 grams) and covers a wider range than the other two lensescombined. Guess which one I'll take with me..

I did that walk in 2004 (when the Saint's day fell on a Sunday, so double indulgences!) and it was one of the most amazing trips I've been on. Nothing spectacularly exotic, but it's almost like stepping back in time eight hundred years. As you fall into and out of groups of other pilgrims, you really feel like you're part of a living Canterbury tale, passing through tiny villages every 15 miles that have cathedrals that rival Notre Dame. When are you getting back? I want to monitor the threads for your pics. I had no camera for most of my trip, and that's my only regret..

David..

Comment #29

Chuxter wrote:.

I believe that the Zukio 12-60 f2.8-f4 is a very good lens, but theOP was not interested in this approach, so nobody but you mentionedit. .

From the OP;.

Can someone provide some suggestions? (doesn't need to be the two I suggested > above, either).

Reading is fundamental... .

And how come you didn't say that to the pentax guy as opposed to adding it to your suggested kits like you did??? just curious....

Great glass and an entry to mid level body wins every time in my book...hence my suggestions, 2 lenses covered from 24-400mm from effective for a travel kit. It's tough to make an argument against that isn't it..

12-60 f2.8-450-200 f2.8-3.5.

$2k budget met, huge effective focal range, IS, dust reduction that works, tack sharp... yeah I don't know what I was thinking.....

Comment #30

David_C_W wrote:.

On my vacations, weight is an important factor. I'm planning an 800kilometer walk on the Camino de Santiago de Compostelo. As much asI'd like to take the Zeiss 24-70 and Sony 70-200, their combinedweight is more than 5 pounds (2.3 kilos). The 18-250mm weighs 15.5ounces (440 grams) and covers a wider range than the other two lensescombined. Guess which one I'll take with me..

I did that walk in 2004 (when the Saint's day fell on a Sunday, sodouble indulgences!) and it was one of the most amazing trips I'vebeen on. Nothing spectacularly exotic, but it's almost like steppingback in time eight hundred years. As you fall into and out of groupsof other pilgrims, you really feel like you're part of a livingCanterbury tale, passing through tiny villages every 15 miles thathave cathedrals that rival Notre Dame. When are you getting back? Iwant to monitor the threads for your pics. I had no camera for mostof my trip, and that's my only regret..

David.

My wife and I are planning the Camino for when I retire in two years. My reading suggests it's as much a physical journey as a spiritual one - blisters, tendinitis, poorly fitting packs rubbing backs raw. She's saying I'm crazy to take a DSLR and lenses, but I don't plan on taking the journey again. Metaphorical, isn't it...

Comment #31

Dennis Phillips wrote:.

My wife and I are planning the Camino for when I retire in two years.My reading suggests it's as much a physical journey as a spiritualone - blisters, tendinitis, poorly fitting packs rubbing backs raw.She's saying I'm crazy to take a DSLR and lenses, but I don't plan ontaking the journey again. Metaphorical, isn't it..

When I did it at least half the pilgrims I met were retirees in the same boat as you. They all seemed to do well enough, and if things get bad, every town has a bus or train station. Hopefully St. James won't mind if you rest easy on one or two of the longer legs..

Instead of backpacks, a lot of the older pilgrims had small carts, handmade from a wooden crate and bicycle tires. You could always use a camera backpack for your precious photo gear and drag less valuable essentials behind in a cart.David..

Comment #32

Freealfas wrote:.

Chuxter wrote:.

I believe that the Zukio 12-60 f2.8-f4 is a very good lens, but theOP was not interested in this approach, so nobody but you mentionedit. .

From the OP;.

Can someone provide some suggestions? (doesn't need to be the two I suggested > above, either).

Reading is fundamental... .

Selective reading is rampant! The OP also wrote:.

"... was thinking something like the Nikon D300, or the Sony A700....For me, IQ is king.".

The rest of us were trying to suggest cameras with outstanding IQ..

And how come you didn't say that to the pentax guy as opposed toadding it to your suggested kits like you did??? just curious....

Because I think the K20D has great IQ?.

Great glass and an entry to mid level body wins every time in mybook...hence my suggestions, 2 lenses covered from 24-400mm fromeffective for a travel kit. It's tough to make an argument againstthat isn't it..

12-60 f2.8-450-200 f2.8-3.5.

$2k budget met, huge effective focal range, IS, dust reduction thatworks, tack sharp... yeah I don't know what I was thinking....

I do! You wanted confirmation that your personal choice is valid....

Why didn't you comment on my primary reply point, ie, that Sony makes a fantastic 24-120 eff. lens?.

"...none of those three offer the wider, longer and sharper 12-60mm(24-120mm effective) that makes an even better walk around lens.".

You were wrong and wanted to change the subject? .

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #33

I've read this entire thread of posts, and it's confusing even for someone who's been shooting for years. I don't know how you could come to a good conclusion about what to buy based on what has been written thus far. I hope I can write something here that you can take with you when considering what camera and what system to buy..

I think you realize that when you buy a camera, you're also investing in a system. People who have committed to a DSLR system, then, have their biases. I own Nikon: my current set-up would run more than $5,000 new. I'm happy with my decision, and that's a good thing: I won't be able to afford switching systems for a long time..

I won't try to talk you into any of the systems. I know Nikons well, so if that's your decision, I could walk you through the choices of lenses, both Nikon and third party, because it's something over time that I've become well-versed in..

Before you decide what camera to buy, what system to buy into, what lenses you're going to buy, you probably need to decide to commit to photography. I know if I was buying $2,000 worth of equipment, I'd want great performance. You say you don't want to post-process, that your wife was into film. Problem is, part of the differences in technologythe learning curve you talked aboutis learning how to do some post. Even if you're not doing major changes, small adjustments to a photo can mean the difference between a throwaway shot and something that can capture someone's attention. I suggest that you should at least consider becoming serious about all aspects of digital photography if you're going to invest in such a big way..

Another thing you want to do before you decide on the camera, system, and lenses is what kind of pictures you want to take. The problem with the systems you narrowed down was that they were so different. (When I talk about lenses, I will talk about the Nikon equivalent.) An 18-200 VR or any ultra-zoom is a great lens for travel (which is why you were originally buying a DSLR), but it isn't the best lens for specialized tasks. Keep this in mind. Personally I have specialized lenses for the different kinds of photography I do. The 18-200 (or, again, any ultrazoom) works as an all-purpose lens, so that, for instance, during travel, you spend more time getting the picture and moving on and less changing lenses on the fly (when dust can compromise your mirror)..

With a generous budget of $2,000, you might want to consider what you want to do. If you're taking portraits, a 16-85, 17-55, 50, 85, 24-70, etc. will be measurably better than an 18-200. Likewise, most portraits won't be taken with focal lengths under 30 or above 105 [there are times they will be; in the case of using a sub-30mm lens, for perspective distortion; some great portraits are done this way]..

If you eventually want to do sports, though, again, the 18-200 is not fast enough. No ultrazoom will be. With some sports, like football, you won't get a long enough focal length, and if you use a teleconverter, it won't work well with the ultrazoom the images will be soft. Likewise, if the lens isn't fast enough, you won't be able to get the pop out of the image because the focus won't be as narrow as they should be..

One of the best features that DSLRs have to offer is that you can use the right lenses to do the right task. Figure out if you want to have the flexibility in an ultrazoom, or if you want perspective distortion of an ultrawide, or ultra-flattering photos you can get from a normal zoom, the low-light benefits of a prime, or the narrow focus and reach of a telephoto..

At that point we can point you in the right direction...

Comment #34

I suggestthat you should at least consider becoming serious about all aspectsof digital photography if you're going to invest in such a big way..

I've really struggled to "touchup" photos when I've tried in the past.It tells me that I'll need to really learn how to use software tools properly..

I was looking to invest in some serious dollars now, and then not have to worry about upgrading any time soon, except potentially adding lenses in the future. Based on the comments so far, it really should be the other way around. Get an entry level DSLR now, and get some really nice lenses that I can keep and use always..

Another thing you want to do before you decide on the camera, system,and lenses is what kind of pictures you want to take..

We take our photos mainly for:- Scenery / Travel- Family / Portraits.

- Macro / Plantlife (wife is a horticulturalist). Its a secondary (nice-to-have).I can safely say that we don't really care about sports..

Based on the comments so far, it tells me that I need to decide if I want to compromise IQ, but allow me to run around with just 1 lense, or go with a two lense setup with the inconvienience of lugging two around europe..

But to be honest, I'm not sure how often I will need to zoom past 100mm...so I'm tempted to get a decent dSLR, and pair it with a very good wide-angle lense..

What do you think?.

I'm not a fanboy of any particular brand so it tells me that I need to goto a shop and play with them all. D40, A700, 40D etc etc and get the one that feels right. It seems that IQ is very similar across all these cameras..

My initial thoughts was a A350 + 16-80 CZ, but with the price drop in the A700, I could upgrade the body..

Lots of people suggest Canon 40D over the Alpha - I'm not sure why? Is it a better camera IQ and feature wise?.

Seems like I'm narrowing it down!..

Comment #35

Chuxter wrote:.

The rest of us were trying to suggest cameras with outstanding IQ..

I was as well....

Http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=e510&w=all.

Tell me where the IQ is lacking. I'll stand by a strategy for a kit of great glass with a entry/mid level body rather than the other way around every time..

Because I think the K20D has great IQ?.

Fair enough..

I do! You wanted confirmation that your personal choice is valid....

I don't need confirmation, I was simply offering an opinion the OP asked for that wasn't offered yet..

Why didn't you comment on my primary reply point, ie, that Sony makesa fantastic 24-120 eff. lens?.

Why would I have to, you did that for them I simply went on to point out you could have a wider and longer lens as the Sony which has a 1.5x multiplier making the 24-70mm(36-105mm) that you tout not as wide or as long as the 12-60mm. One could argue the Oly kit a better walk around lens for the OP's trip..

"...none of those three offer the wider, longer and sharper12-60mm(24-120mm effective) that makes an even better walk aroundlens.".

You were wrong and wanted to change the subject? .

Wrong about what?.

What I was was not aware of the 16-80mm(24-120mm efl) that sony makes until now. what I went on to find out was that it still isn't as fast as the 12-60mm I mentioned. so again for a walk around lens/kit I still think the 12-60 trumps the sony...

Comment #36

Freealfas wrote:.

Chuxter wrote:.

Why didn't you comment on my primary reply point, ie, that Sony makesa fantastic 24-120 eff. lens?.

Why would I have to, you did that for them I simply went on to pointout you could have a wider and longer lens as the Sony which has a1.5x multiplier making the 24-70mm(36-105mm) that you tout not aswide or as long as the 12-60mm. One could argue the Oly kit a betterwalk around lens for the OP's trip..

Your 24-120 lens is 12-60. I touted the Sony 24-120 lens, which is 16-80...in other words if you had been truely helpful, you would have suggested the 16-80, not a completely different camera!.

"...none of those three offer the wider, longer and sharper12-60mm(24-120mm effective) that makes an even better walk aroundlens.".

You were wrong and wanted to change the subject? .

Wrong about what?.

What I was was not aware of the 16-80mm(24-120mm efl) that sony makesuntil now..

Yes, that was my point...ie, that you were not aware of an obvious solution..

What I went on to find out was that it still isn't as fastas the 12-60mm I mentioned. so again for a walk around lens/kit Istill think the 12-60 trumps the sony..

No, because your Oly NEEDS the extra speed to compensate for it's smaller sensor, which has less sensitivity. Even so, your Oly still doesn't have quite the IQ of the 1.5-crop-factor dSLRs. It doesn't really make much difference, because all these cameras take good pix. But the little Oly doesn't "trump" anything... .

Again, I like Olys, but I don't like the attitude of many Oly owners who need to "trump" everybody else...and who only offer Oly-centric advice. Why does the Oly always need to be better?.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #37

Also....

Did you know that Nikon has a brand new 24-128mm eff (real = 16-85mm) lens? It's the AF-S DX 16-85mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR. It is $180 less expensive than the Oly and lighter(18.5%). It's also $50 less expensive and heavier (9%) than the Sony. It would be a great "walkaround" lens for the OP..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #38

Nikon has a good feeling in the hand, Canon 40D is a semi professional camera Sony is a new kid in town based on Konica Minolta know how..

Canon 40D and Canon 400D will give you the same quality from the same lens. The build quality of 40D is far better though and the grip is better..

Sony has quite good results but the lens choice is not so diversified with some lens quite bad (like the 18-70 mm kit lens)..

Canon 40D, Nkon D80 and Nikon D300 are past the entry level dSLR and with the exception of Nikon D80 cost a lot of money..

As I said previously look at the lens choice and get a body that works with them. All brands have very good expensive lens..

I chose Nikon because the cheaper lens are more than decent and easily available in Romania. Also you may look at Pentax line..

If you want Canon 40D you better get a good lens for wide angle (at least 18 mm) and possibly one for telephoto. The fast lens are heavy and very expensive. I wouldn't get them on a vacation because of weight and risks. And you wouldn't really need f/2.8 except in the museums but a very fast prime (50 mm f/1.4) will help you in that situation at a fraction of price for a fast zoom.VictorBucuresti, Romaniahttp://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/victor_petcu/http://picasaweb.google.com/teodor.nitica/..

Comment #39

[snip].

Lots of people suggest Canon 40D over the Alpha - I'm not sure why?Is it a better camera IQ and feature wise?.

Have a look at dpreview's comparison page.http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra700/page22.asp.

Items in green are good against the competition, items in red bad..

So versus the Canon 40D, Sony's A700 lacks live view, but the Canon lacks Dynamic Range Optimization and in-body stabilization..

On this page you'll see comparisons of actual photos. Do note that the Canon has a slightly smaller sensor (1.6 crop factor versus Sony's 1.5), so take that into account when checking out the pictures.http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra700/page24.asp.

People suggest the Canon because it's been the market leader. But it's lead is slipping. However, that historic lead means there's lots of lenses and accessories out there. Plus you're more likely to find a Canon service centre on your travels than a Sony service centre if your camera or lens needs repair..

The repair centres are a very real advantage for Canon. But I'm not convinced the lens inventory is. When I was checking out Sony, I discovered that the Minolta heritage meant there were some lenses that no one else had..

For instance, the 500mm reflex lens that everyone else markets is manual focus. Sony's 500mm reflex is the only one that's autofocus..

And then there's the Sony 135mm f/2.8 Smooth Transition Focus lens with it's superb bokeh. It's a unique lens that no other manufacturer has in their inventory..

There are so many pluses and minuses that it's hard to decide how to weight them all. My advice is to simplify the decision into maybe four or five criteria that are really important to you..

For me the four or five criteria included the ability to take handheld shots in museums, a path into superb lenses when I could afford them, and the ability to make camera adjustments rapidly (ease of use)..

Best of luck in your decision...

Comment #40

I've really struggled to "touchup" photos when I've tried in the past.It tells me that I'll need to really learn how to use software toolsproperly..

One of the nice things about digital photography is that you can keep those digital negatives (RAW files, known as NEFs for Nikon) around and touch them up more when you're more proficient at it. There are a lot of free tutorials on the web, and some decent programs (like Lightroom and Aperture) that can do a decent job on the cheap..

We take our photos mainly for:- Scenery / Travel- Family / Portraits- Macro / Plantlife (wife is a horticulturalist). Its a secondary(nice-to-have).I can safely say that we don't really care about sports..

Based on this, I think I can safely say that you don't need a supertelephoto. You probably don't need an extreme wide angle either. If you can fill 18-200 (which is essentially 10x zoom), you ought to be very happy..

But to be honest, I'm not sure how often I will need to zoom past100mm...so I'm tempted to get a decent dSLR, and pair it with a verygood wide-angle lense..

What do you think?.

There isn't really any big need for a portrait lens on a prosumer digital body to be any longer than 50mm. As a matter of preference, many still prefer up to 105mm. For travel, I think a lot of people need a moderate wide angle more than they need a big telephoto. Especially Europe where presumably you'll be taking pictures on streets, in buildings, etc. I do think that a longer telephoto would be useful at times, but it may not be essential..

I'm not a fanboy of any particular brand so it tells me that I needto goto a shop and play with them all. D40, A700, 40D etc etc and getthe one that feels right. It seems that IQ is very similar across allthese cameras..

The 16-80CZ would probably be a good zoom initially. I don't know anything about the lens itself, but the zoom would fit well. On the Nikon end, I would suggest the 16-85 VR recently released, apparently just as sharp (or more sharp) as the more expensive 17-55 f/2.8. A local professional photographer/author I trust based in Austin, TX said that. If I were you looking to get into Nikon, I might suggest a D200. A lot of great photographers are getting rid of theirs right now in favor of the D300 or D3.

At 10mp, it has the same resolution as the 40D. It has a similar ISO range, a slightly larger sensor size (it's CCD, not CMOS though). It has connectivity with a lot of Nikon's gadgets and has a lot of functions you can grow into. Some new features, like Live View, aren't available on it, but you'll have to decide if that is important..

The fact that photographers are selling these means they can be had for $800 used. Find one for between $800-900, and you're getting a great camera fairly cheaply. Add the $700 16-85 VR, and you've hit $1,500. Add a $200 SB-600 for it's bounce flash (helps portrait photography A LOT!), Adobe Lightroom for $300 (if you're involved with a university of some kind, you could get a great discountI only have to pay $99 through my university store), and you've got yourself this:.

1. a camera a lot of pros use or use as a backup (and one that is very durable)2. a very sharp, very versatile lens.

3. one of the best strobes on the market (Canon users often love everything about their systems but wish they could use Nikon flashes)4. a program that a lot of pros start their post-processing with.

I will say this about the D200. It is said to be more finicky than other some other cameras at getting the best results. In the next few weeks, I suggest you buy one of Thom Hogan's Nikon books, go tohttp://www.cambridgeincolour.com,http://www.luminous-landscape.com,http://www.nikonians.org, post camera-specific questions you have here on this forum, etc. etc. And practice. If you have a dog, take a picture of the dog.

Of the house. Of the flowers. Of the school on the corner. Go into town, take pictures of the historic landmark. Of somebody staring at the historic landmark.

See how it affects your photography [you will see that you need a tripod, you'll come back here and ask what tripod to get, and then people will try getting you to buy a $500 Gitzo and a $400 RRS ballhead]..

Seriously, though act like a tourist in your own town, and when you go to Europe, your photos will reflect the fact that in a month, you've taken a thousand or more shots. Remember to share the toy with your wife happy hunting!..

Comment #41

I would suggest paying me $1000 as a consulting fee, and $1000 to buy a camera for you. Just kidding. But seriouslly. If you are going from a point and shoot, and you are going through Europe as a first time DSLR user, you could end up with a bunch of useless images..

The D300 has presets that you can program, but it has no scene selection dial, as you are most likely used to. For the amount of money you are willing to spend, I am going to suggest something different that what other people are suggesting, sort of as a contrast to their suggestions, just in case..

Let's say you spend that $2000, even though you could get your needs met for half of that..

I would purchase a Nikon D80 or Canon 40D. With the 40D having a notable 1/8000th of a sec digital shutter and faster lens focusing, and the D80 having better auto iso settings, very convenient. You will get plenty of performance over a point and shoot, and over the D40/D60 lens motor situation, but you will still get a scene selection dial on the top. Then, I would get a tall tripod, a table top tripod, two 4 gig memory cards, lens and mirror cleaning kit, camera backpack with good padding, extra battery, EUROPEAN CHARGING ADAPTER for all of your electronics, a nice VR(vibration reduction) telephoto lens, maybe 80-200mm, and a wider angle lens for those fields of wine grapes, maybe an 18-55mm. The brand and quality is up to you, but lenses can really make a difference, so I would suggest Nikkor and Canon branded lenses, and VR capable ones for telephoto lenses. UV, Polarized and ND lens filters, lens bonnet, and portable camera bag..

That should do it for now. There's more you could get, but you don't need it...

Comment #42

Oh! Don't forget to set aside $75 for Photoshop Elements. I know you've said a couple of times you don't want to get into post-processing, but even if you just adjust the white balance and sharpness, it can make a world of difference. Whatever you end up buying will probably include software that lets you do the same thing, but the learning curve is much higher than with Elements (at least, it is with Canon's software, which I don't care for).David..

Comment #43

Be sure and tell us what you decide when that time comes!..

Comment #44

Thanks everyone for their continued comments. Based on the information so far, I saw one of these in a Camera store this afternoon and couldn't help but buy it:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

The wood-grain finish really won it over for me;).

In all seriousness though - We'll be heading into a camera store (for real) over the weekend and will then make our decision. I will like to handle the camera and get a good feel for it prior to buying one....

At the moment we're still leaning towards a 40D / A700...

Comment #45

Very nice. You really should have mentioned wood grain sooner though. You may be disappointed when you see the Canon and Sony. They'll seem plasticy by comparison...

Comment #46

My dad was a prof photog in the 70's and 80's, and he hated weddings and portaits, even though that's where he earned money. He had a bunch of antique cameras, and would take a wooden bellows one like that out on weekends to do the artsy landscapes and the like that he considered his "real" photography..

He said a lot of them he could sell in stock for jigsaw puzzles and such, because they had such a unique look..

David..

Comment #47

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