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Tell me if I'm wrong..
Store-wise, we don't have a very big selection of DSLRs unless you go to multiple ones. I've handled some but not all the models I've researched..

Tell me if I'm wrong about the choices I've narrowed down:.

Olympus 510 or 520 - Second (to 420) smallest DSLR on the market? Good lens kit, IS built in, has dust clearing technology. More noise (noticeable) at higher ISOs..

Pentax K100D Super (used) or K200D - Much larger than the Oly, but has a lot of primes available. Not so great zoom selection. Weather-sealed with in-body IS. Not so good at focusing in low light, but low noise at higher ISOs..

Pentax DS2 (used) - Small Pentax, have read good reviews (both "professional" and anecdotal) but not handled because I can't find it anywhere, no IS..

My criteria are (preferably): In-body IS (or affordable IS lenses for a hobbyist), portability/unobtrusiveness. Indoors I would most likely be shooting with a flash as I want to learn more about bouncing light, etc. Outdoors doing three things during the day: street, macro, landscape. I'd like to play with extended exposures at night on a tripod. No action or sports shots..

Very interested in primes, would like to work with one focal length to see what I can do within the constraints, thus the interest in Pentax. Also interested in having a small body that would be less noticeable for street photos. Am currently using a P&S but I would like to learn more about real photography (lighting, exposure, metering, etc) than my trusty but limited F20 can afford..

Am I overlooking any body (from any company) that would fit these requirements well? I did not list any Nikon or Canon because of lack of in-body IS, but if their IS lenses are affordable ($500-under used) for an amateur hobbyist I would also consider..

(Forgot to mention: I will be shooting RAW 100% of the time, if that matters prefer to do my own pp)...

Comments (12)

Annagm wrote:.

Store-wise, we don't have a very big selection of DSLRs unless you goto multiple ones. I've handled some but not all the models I'veresearched..

Tell me if I'm wrong about the choices I've narrowed down:.

Olympus 510 or 520 - Second (to 420) smallest DSLR on the market?Good lens kit, IS built in, has dust clearing technology. More noise(noticeable) at higher ISOs..

Pentax K100D Super (used) or K200D - Much larger than the Oly, buthas a lot of primes available..

I've never seen them size by side - don't really know how much smaller the Oly is..

Not so great zoom selection.Weather-sealed with in-body IS. Not so good at focusing in lowlight, but low noise at higher ISOs..

Pentax DS2 (used) - Small Pentax, have read good reviews (both"professional" and anecdotal) but not handled because I can't find itanywhere, no IS..

The fondness for the DS stems from the fact it uses the same size viewfinder as the K10d but was the smallest DSLR in it's day. The DS2 was a very rare model that had a slightly larger LCD than the DS. I would include Samsung in your search as they didn't sell as well and can still be found new if you look hard enough. Same camera basically. KEH.com has a used DS2 right now..

My criteria are (preferably): In-body IS (or affordable IS lensesfor a hobbyist), portability/unobtrusiveness. Indoors I would mostlikely be shooting with a flash as I want to learn more aboutbouncing light, etc. Outdoors doing three things during the day:street, macro, landscape. I'd like to play with extended exposuresat night on a tripod. No action or sports shots..

Very interested in primes, would like to work with one focal lengthto see what I can do within the constraints, thus the interest inPentax. Also interested in having a small body that would be lessnoticeable for street photos. Am currently using a P&S but I wouldlike to learn more about real photography (lighting, exposure,metering, etc) than my trusty but limited F20 can afford..

Am I overlooking any body (from any company) that would fit theserequirements well? I did not list any Nikon or Canon because of lackof in-body IS, but if their IS lenses are affordable ($500-underused) for an amateur hobbyist I would also consider..

(Forgot to mention: I will be shooting RAW 100% of the time, if thatmatters prefer to do my own pp)..

Through the window in the wallCome streaming in on sunlight wingsA million bright ambassadors of morning..

Comment #1

You're pretty much bang on except the D40/60 from Nikon is smaller than the E520 I beleive..

Oh, and from 18-300mm Pentax has lots available now (not so a year ago) but past 300mm the cupboard is bare..

Annagm wrote:.

Store-wise, we don't have a very big selection of DSLRs unless you goto multiple ones. I've handled some but not all the models I'veresearched..

Tell me if I'm wrong about the choices I've narrowed down:.

Olympus 510 or 520 - Second (to 420) smallest DSLR on the market?Good lens kit, IS built in, has dust clearing technology. More noise(noticeable) at higher ISOs..

Pentax K100D Super (used) or K200D - Much larger than the Oly, buthas a lot of primes available. Not so great zoom selection.Weather-sealed with in-body IS. Not so good at focusing in lowlight, but low noise at higher ISOs..

Pentax DS2 (used) - Small Pentax, have read good reviews (both"professional" and anecdotal) but not handled because I can't find itanywhere, no IS..

My criteria are (preferably): In-body IS (or affordable IS lensesfor a hobbyist), portability/unobtrusiveness. Indoors I would mostlikely be shooting with a flash as I want to learn more aboutbouncing light, etc. Outdoors doing three things during the day:street, macro, landscape. I'd like to play with extended exposuresat night on a tripod. No action or sports shots..

Very interested in primes, would like to work with one focal lengthto see what I can do within the constraints, thus the interest inPentax. Also interested in having a small body that would be lessnoticeable for street photos. Am currently using a P&S but I wouldlike to learn more about real photography (lighting, exposure,metering, etc) than my trusty but limited F20 can afford..

Am I overlooking any body (from any company) that would fit theserequirements well? I did not list any Nikon or Canon because of lackof in-body IS, but if their IS lenses are affordable ($500-underused) for an amateur hobbyist I would also consider..

(Forgot to mention: I will be shooting RAW 100% of the time, if thatmatters prefer to do my own pp)..

***********************************************Please visit my gallery at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti.

Pentax Lens examples at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti/images_by_lens.

Updated May '08..

Comment #2

OK, You're wrong. .

Annagm wrote:.

Store-wise, we don't have a very big selection of DSLRs unless you goto multiple ones. I've handled some but not all the models I'veresearched..

Tell me if I'm wrong about the choices I've narrowed down:.

Olympus 510 or 520 - Second (to 420) smallest DSLR on the market?Good lens kit, IS built in, has dust clearing technology. More noise(noticeable) at higher ISOs..

The "good" Oly lenses are superb, but VERY expensive!.

Pentax K100D Super (used) or K200D - Much larger than the Oly, buthas a lot of primes available. Not so great zoom selection.Weather-sealed with in-body IS. Not so good at focusing in lowlight, but low noise at higher ISOs..

Pentax has a philosophy of NOT fiddling with the image as much as the other 4 dSLR manufacturers. You may like that or hate it?.

Pentax DS2 (used) - Small Pentax, have read good reviews (both"professional" and anecdotal) but not handled because I can't find itanywhere, no IS..

My criteria are (preferably): In-body IS (or affordable IS lensesfor a hobbyist), portability/unobtrusiveness. Indoors I would mostlikely be shooting with a flash as I want to learn more aboutbouncing light, etc. Outdoors doing three things during the day:street, macro, landscape. I'd like to play with extended exposuresat night on a tripod. No action or sports shots..

None of your intended applications seem to beg for IS? What are you thinking?.

The absolutely best street cam is the Sony R1 (because of where the LCD is located). It's also wonderful for any kind of photography where the operator thinks before pressing the shutter button! Landscapes...check. Macro (as long as it's not of VERY small subjects)...check. Portraits...check. If you concider something queer like the DS2, the R1 should be on your list. No, you can't have mine!.

Very interested in primes, would like to work with one focal lengthto see what I can do within the constraints, thus the interest inPentax. Also interested in having a small body that would be lessnoticeable for street photos. Am currently using a P&S but I wouldlike to learn more about real photography (lighting, exposure,metering, etc) than my trusty but limited F20 can afford..

Even P&S cameras CAN take "real" photographs! What are you thinking?.

Am I overlooking any body (from any company) that would fit theserequirements well? I did not list any Nikon or Canon because of lackof in-body IS, but if their IS lenses are affordable ($500-underused) for an amateur hobbyist I would also consider..

Nikon has several IS lenses under $500. And lots of great lenses over $500. Like the 18-55 and 55-200 VR kit lenses (both together cost less than $400!). The superb 16-85 VR and the handy 18-200 VR both are around $650, so they are outside your budget. By Sigma (and probably others) make lenses with OS in them. Like the 18-125 for $380 and the 18-200 for $500.



(Forgot to mention: I will be shooting RAW 100% of the time, if thatmatters prefer to do my own pp)..

No you didn't. You mentioned it...finally. .

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #3

Chuxter wrote:.

My criteria are (preferably): In-body IS (or affordable IS lensesfor a hobbyist), portability/unobtrusiveness. Indoors I would mostlikely be shooting with a flash as I want to learn more aboutbouncing light, etc. Outdoors doing three things during the day:street, macro, landscape. I'd like to play with extended exposuresat night on a tripod. No action or sports shots..

None of your intended applications seem to beg for IS? What are youthinking?.

It would be nice to have, but not necessary  From what I've read it seems to allow more flexibility in terms of setting up for a shot (slower shutter speeds, etc) and compensate for shaky hand holding..

The absolutely best street cam is the Sony R1 (because of where theLCD is located). It's also wonderful for any kind of photographywhere the operator thinks before pressing the shutter button!Landscapes...check. Macro (as long as it's not of VERY smallsubjects)...check. Portraits...check. If you concider something queerlike the DS2, the R1 should be on your list. No, you can't have mine!.

Ah, but that is a fixed-lens camera, it sounds very intriguing and I looked up a few reviews after you mentioned it perhaps as a second P&S rather than the entry-level DSLR I'm looking for..

The DS/2 is something I've been looking at because of a few things: People speak well of the user interface, it has a very good viewfinder (I would prefer to use one rather than the LCD / live view) and it seems like it may be a good cheap camera to learn on. As someone had mentioned, KEH has one in EX condition w/ the kit lens for $350 almost as inexpensive as a P&S..

Very interested in primes, would like to work with one focal lengthto see what I can do within the constraints, thus the interest inPentax. Also interested in having a small body that would be lessnoticeable for street photos. Am currently using a P&S but I wouldlike to learn more about real photography (lighting, exposure,metering, etc) than my trusty but limited F20 can afford..

Even P&S cameras CAN take "real" photographs! What are you thinking?.

I am not implying that you can't take "real" photos with P&S I've seen a lot of beautiful pictures taken with the Fujis and G7/G9's Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I would like to get into the technical aspects of photography rather than have a P&S do most of the work for me..

Am I overlooking any body (from any company) that would fit theserequirements well? I did not list any Nikon or Canon because of lackof in-body IS, but if their IS lenses are affordable ($500-underused) for an amateur hobbyist I would also consider..

Nikon has several IS lenses under $500. And lots of great lenses over$500. Like the 18-55 and 55-200 VR kit lenses (both together costless than $400!). The superb 16-85 VR and the handy 18-200 VR bothare around $650, so they are outside your budget. By Sigma (andprobably others) make lenses with OS in them. Like the 18-125 for$380 and the 18-200 for $500.



I am in the middle of doing research, of course, but thought I'd ask to see if someone (like you) would have a quick reply to help me out..

(Forgot to mention: I will be shooting RAW 100% of the time, if thatmatters prefer to do my own pp)..

No you didn't. You mentioned it...finally. .

Ah, I should've moved it to the top of the list on edit. I'm not at all concerned with immediate JPEG output (lossy ), I want an image I can process in PS CS3 and Lightroom...

Comment #4

Annagm wrote:.

Am I overlooking any body (from any company) that would fit theserequirements well?.

Yes, Sony has several models that would. In addition LiveView as implemented in the A300 and A350 differs from other systems by using "normal" SLR AF instead of contrast detection, which is similar to that used in compact cameras.Sony's cameras also let you use the built-in flash as master for wireless flash...

Comment #5

Tryhttp://www.pentaxforums dot com for an outstanding use dmarket. If a DS comes up it goes for about $250..

Annagm wrote:.

The DS/2 is something I've been looking at because of a few things:People speak well of the user interface, it has a very goodviewfinder (I would prefer to use one rather than the LCD / liveview) and it seems like it may be a good cheap camera to learn on.As someone had mentioned, KEH has one in EX condition w/ the kit lensfor $350 almost as inexpensive as a P&S..

***********************************************Please visit my gallery at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti.

Pentax Lens examples at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti/images_by_lens.

Updated May '08..

Comment #6

Indeed you are overlooking Sony. Their DSLRs have the enviable and very innovative history of Minolta behind them (Sony bought the camera division together with it's expertise). All the old Minolta AF lenses will fit and if you see any marked "G" then they right up there with the best ever made by anyone..

Consider the Alpha 300 or 350 for a fully modern digital expereince offering the best live view (with flip out LCD) as well as an optical viewfinder system. You'd need the more expensive Olympus E3 to get this kind of specification..

If however you wish to go pro one day then buy into either the Canon or Nikon systems to avoid having to go there later..

John.Please visit me at:http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/backtothebridgehttp://www.pbase.com/johnfr/digital_dartmoor..

Comment #7

John farrar wrote:.

Indeed you are overlooking Sony. Their DSLRs have the enviable andvery innovative history of Minolta behind them (Sony bought thecamera division together with it's expertise). All the old Minolta AFlenses will fit and if you see any marked "G" then they right upthere with the best ever made by anyone.Consider the Alpha 300 or 350 for a fully modern digital expereinceoffering the best live view (with flip out LCD) as well as an opticalviewfinder system. You'd need the more expensive Olympus E3 to getthis kind of specification..

I wil take a look at the Sonys on my next rounds at the stores..

If however you wish to go pro one day then buy into either the Canonor Nikon systems to avoid having to go there later..

I previously owned a film SLR (Nikon N50) before I went fully digital and enjoyed it, that is a good point you make. One of the previous posters had listed some prices for Nikkor lenses which seemed reasonable too. I liked the feel of the Nikon D80 at the store, it's a higher price tag than the others I'm looking at though and somewhat larger...

Comment #8

John farrar wrote:.

If however you wish to go pro one day then buy into either the Canonor Nikon systems to avoid having to go there later..

Next month Sony will release it's shot at a pro SLR, and while there are no guarantees that they will ever become #1, they may still become a credible alternative to the big two.Besides, there are already pros using other brands than Canon and Nikon...

Comment #9

Annagm wrote:.

The absolutely best street cam is the Sony R1 (because of where theLCD is located). It's also wonderful for any kind of photographywhere the operator thinks before pressing the shutter button!Landscapes...check. Macro (as long as it's not of VERY smallsubjects)...check. Portraits...check. If you concider something queerlike the DS2, the R1 should be on your list. No, you can't have mine!.

Ah, but that is a fixed-lens camera, it sounds very intriguing and Ilooked up a few reviews after you mentioned it perhaps as asecond P&S rather than the entry-level DSLR I'm looking for..

It's just a camera. "P&S" is actually a life-style choice...not a description of a type of camera! You can use any half-way serious camera for learning how to manually focus and expose. You can use any half-way serious camera as an automatic camera, that precludes thinking by the operator. You can leave one lens on your entry-level dSLR and never remove it. Lots of owners do exactly that..

My recommendation was that the R1 will allow you to take better street pix because it's a better tool for that. It doesn't matter that the lens is not-removable...that doesn't affect it's use as a street cam. You can buy one for less than one lens for your dSLR. Duh....

The DS/2 is something I've been looking at because of a few things:People speak well of the user interface, it has a very goodviewfinder (I would prefer to use one rather than the LCD / liveview) and it seems like it may be a good cheap camera to learn on.As someone had mentioned, KEH has one in EX condition w/ the kit lensfor $350 almost as inexpensive as a P&S..

Once again, there is not one price for your mythical P&S. They have and do vary in price..

Very interested in primes, would like to work with one focal lengthto see what I can do within the constraints, thus the interest inPentax. Also interested in having a small body that would be lessnoticeable for street photos. Am currently using a P&S but I wouldlike to learn more about real photography (lighting, exposure,metering, etc) than my trusty but limited F20 can afford..

Even P&S cameras CAN take "real" photographs! What are you thinking?.

I am not implying that you can't take "real" photos with P&S I'veseen a lot of beautiful pictures taken with the Fujis and G7/G9's Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I would like to getinto the technical aspects of photography rather than have a P&S domost of the work for me..

Then you need to revise your language. The cameras you mantion above are no more a "P&S" than a Nikon D40 or a Canon 1000D. They are properly called "non-mirror cameras" or "fixed-lens cameras"..

Am I overlooking any body (from any company) that would fit theserequirements well? I did not list any Nikon or Canon because of lackof in-body IS, but if their IS lenses are affordable ($500-underused) for an amateur hobbyist I would also consider..

Nikon has several IS lenses under $500. And lots of great lenses over$500. Like the 18-55 and 55-200 VR kit lenses (both together costless than $400!). The superb 16-85 VR and the handy 18-200 VR bothare around $650, so they are outside your budget. By Sigma (andprobably others) make lenses with OS in them. Like the 18-125 for$380 and the 18-200 for $500.



I am in the middle of doing research, of course, but thought I'd askto see if someone (like you) would have a quick reply to help me out..

(Forgot to mention: I will be shooting RAW 100% of the time, if thatmatters prefer to do my own pp)..

No you didn't. You mentioned it...finally. .

Ah, I should've moved it to the top of the list on edit. I'm not atall concerned with immediate JPEG output (lossy ), I want an imageI can process in PS CS3 and Lightroom..

I too do a lot of RAW pix and PP. BUT, to make a blanket condemnation of ALL JPEG output is silly and ignorant. There are cameras that offer excellent JPEG output...so good that you won't be able to tell if it's a RAW or not! I routinely use the RAW compressed mode with my D300 (like most other intelligent users). I also do about 70% of my shots as JPEG fine and have no problem with the IQ..

Notice that not ALL cameras have good JPEG engines in them. But some do....

Lossy is good. Bad IQ is bad. One does not have to give you the other!.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #10

Annagm wrote:.

I liked the feel of the Nikon D80 at the store, it'sa higher price tag than the others I'm looking at though and somewhatlarger..

Yes, because it's not a comparable model. All camera mfgs make a wide range of models. In the Nikon line the D80 is the 7th model up from the bottom:.

D40, D50, D40s, D60, D70, D70s, D80....

One oft overlooked aspect is the feel of the camera in hand. You found the D80 nice to hold because it's size and shape is excellent. Many of the other models in the Nikon line (and other brands too) are too small! A high priority should be to get a camera that you can hold all day w/o fatigue. You can believe it or not, but weight is not a major factor...the shape and size is a major factor..

Dang right the D80 is a nice feeling camera. It's a semi-pro model..

Note that I'm not trying to sell you a Nikon. There are many choices of comfortable cameras. You should get one?.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D300HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/'Experience: Discovering that a claw hammer will bend nails.Epiphany: Discovering that a claw hammer is two tools...'..

Comment #11

Http://.

Http://www.

.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographers-marketplace/33503-pentax-ist-ds-plus-lenses.html.

Annagm wrote:.

Store-wise, we don't have a very big selection of DSLRs unless you goto multiple ones. I've handled some but not all the models I'veresearched..

Tell me if I'm wrong about the choices I've narrowed down:.

Olympus 510 or 520 - Second (to 420) smallest DSLR on the market?Good lens kit, IS built in, has dust clearing technology. More noise(noticeable) at higher ISOs..

Pentax K100D Super (used) or K200D - Much larger than the Oly, buthas a lot of primes available. Not so great zoom selection.Weather-sealed with in-body IS. Not so good at focusing in lowlight, but low noise at higher ISOs..

Pentax DS2 (used) - Small Pentax, have read good reviews (both"professional" and anecdotal) but not handled because I can't find itanywhere, no IS..

My criteria are (preferably): In-body IS (or affordable IS lensesfor a hobbyist), portability/unobtrusiveness. Indoors I would mostlikely be shooting with a flash as I want to learn more aboutbouncing light, etc. Outdoors doing three things during the day:street, macro, landscape. I'd like to play with extended exposuresat night on a tripod. No action or sports shots..

Very interested in primes, would like to work with one focal lengthto see what I can do within the constraints, thus the interest inPentax. Also interested in having a small body that would be lessnoticeable for street photos. Am currently using a P&S but I wouldlike to learn more about real photography (lighting, exposure,metering, etc) than my trusty but limited F20 can afford..

Am I overlooking any body (from any company) that would fit theserequirements well? I did not list any Nikon or Canon because of lackof in-body IS, but if their IS lenses are affordable ($500-underused) for an amateur hobbyist I would also consider..

(Forgot to mention: I will be shooting RAW 100% of the time, if thatmatters prefer to do my own pp)..

***********************************************Please visit my gallery at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti.

Pentax Lens examples at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti/images_by_lens.

Updated May '08..

Comment #12

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