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SLR and Image Stabilizer
Hi all,.

I want to buy a digital camera and I need some advice,Here is the story:.

I had a Olympus C-8080 Wide Zoom once and it was the best. Excellent lens and features and image quality and ...Unfortunately somebody stole it , .....

Now, I want to buy a new Camera but I haven't been succesful finding a decent camera..

I am familiar with photography and I can make use of a camera's features but 95 percent of my use of camera is just capturing scenes with my family and friends and not doing photography for fun, etc. but I dont want to miss some things just because my camera doesnt have enough features to for example give me good result at nights or indoor..

The point is, I am considering buying an EOS 400D or EOS 350D but the problem is these cameras come with a lens which does not have image stabilizer. I dont want to buy an extra lens with image stabilzer cause as I said I mostly use my camera for usual use and not professionaly. So please tell me that if I buy one of these two or Nikon D40 or like that, will I be able to shoot without a tripod?.

Please name some good cameras that you know ....

Thanks .....

Comments (15)

Some of the new Nikons are sold with the 18-55 VR kit lens, and it works very well, and price is also good for this type of Camera..

I bought a Nikon D80 with the 18-135 kit lens, I have replaced this with 18-55 VR and the 55-200 VR lens, and for me I love both lens, the 18-135 kit lens is now in the cuboard gathering dust on a shelf.ViVa la VRthis is 18-55VRNikon D801/180f 5.6ISO 100.

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Http://s185.photobucket.com/...02/?albumview=slideshow&mediafilter=images..

Comment #1

Hi,.

You liked Olympus, so why not look at the current dSLR's? Try the E-5xx's or the E-4xx's for a start..

Regards, David..

Comment #2

You can get image stabilisation on any DSLR. On some it is built into the camera body (Olympus, Pentax, Sony). On others (Canon, Nikon) it is incorporated into the lenses, so if you want a lot of lenses thay all have to have it in (which costs extra). The latest Canon and Nikon offerings have kit lenses with image stabilisation (a.k.a. vibration reduction) so it will be part of the package..

Don't think you need it all the time however: in good light you will have a shutter speed to hand-hold easily with out needing IS. It is helpful in situations like indoors without flash for example (I regularly use exposures like 1/30 sec, f/4, ISO 800) and for those I switch the IS on on my Pentax..

Best wishes.

Mike..

Comment #3

Why don't you go the Pentax route. Sounds like you only need a portrait lens (kit lens will suffice) and if you want better quality you can pick up a old prime like the Pentax-A 50mm 1.4 for about 50 (90$) on eBay. You have the anti-shake feature available to all lenses and to be honest unless you're going to use long telephoto zooms it probably wont benefit you investing in lenses with IS (Canon and Nikon). At portrait focal lengths the performance difference is between sensor based IS and lens based IS is probably negligible, although others may have a different opinion about that..

You can pick up a K100D cheap (whilst stocks last) if 6MP will suffice opr go for a K200D. Don't see the point investing any more than is necessary if your only going to take family portraits and pictures. The build quality is 1st class the kit lens amonsgt the best there is, given the reviews I've read...

Comment #4

Why would you need VR for an exposure of 1/180 on a 18-55 lens?..

Comment #5

You should be able to shoot without a tripod as long as your shutter speed is high enough. The rule of thumb from 35mm days was a handheld shutter should be above 1/focal length, so for a 50mm lems, a shutter speed of at least 1/50 is required. If you are using a crop sensor camera then you have to factor in the equivalent focal length, so for example a Canon 400D with a 50mm lens needs a shutter speed of 1/(50x1.6) or 1/80. this is just a rule of thumb, if you're steady, you could go slower, shaky hands may require faster. Good technique and practice will improve your keeper rate..

Image stabilisation allows you to push your shutter speed slower than the rule of thumb. Each manufacturer makes great claims about the effectiveness of their system, usually they claim it in stops. Each stop allows you to halve your shutter speed, so for the example above where 1/80 was required, 1 stop gives you 1/40, 2 stops 1/20, 3 stops 1/10 and so on. The most common claim these days is 'up to 4 stops', but that is the maximum benefit you will see. Generally you can count on about 2-3 stops..

Any modern DSLR takes great pictures as long as you use it right, so from your description you should do ok whatever you choose. If you really want image stabilisation, Nikon & Canon will require you to buy it with each lens(if available), Olympus, Pentax & Sony have in body so every lens is stabilised..

A quick example from my Olympus E-510 and Sigma 30mm lens, taken indoors in a medium lit room.1/10 f/2.8 800ISO.

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Comment #6

One thing to think about..

You go in lens IS(canon/nikon) you have to make a decision if you want to add the extra expense and complexity to potentially every lens you think about buying and it will never offer IS for legacy lenses should you choose to try them out.

If you go in body with the IS(Oly, pentax,sony) you pay for it exactly once and it will be available to every lens you mount to the camera saving you money over the long run..

Olympus - great lensescanon - great high ISOnikon - good all aroundpentax - selection of prime lensessony - ? .

Oly has the best kit lenses going as has been accepted for a while now and e510 prices with the 2 lens kit are a bargain. you get 2 lenses that cover 28-300mm in a very sharp and compact package. they are a great way to get started in the hobby..

Any of them will do the job, read the reviews, hold them in hand & stick to a budget and you'll be good to go..

Good luck..

Comment #7

When you get to 70 you too will need all the help you can get to stop camera shake, (its an age thing ).

Http://s185.photobucket.com/...02/?albumview=slideshow&mediafilter=images..

Comment #8

That said, it is nice sometimes. BUT.

I think far too many people think IS will eliminate blurry pictures, IS will eliminate the need for a fast lens, and that IS is necessary on a camera..

A camera with good high ISO performance is key. More light to work with.A fast lens is key. More light to work with.If you use flash, IS is useless most of the time.If you are outside with high shutter speeds, IS is useless most of the time.IS does not stop motion blur from moving objects. Only unsteady hands..

I have Canon, so no IS in the body. I only have one IS lens (24-105L), and the truth is, I do not find IS as some indispensable feature..

It can be nice in low light at small apertures, but it is not earth changing..

The point is, I am considering buying an EOS 400D or EOS 350D but theproblem is these cameras come with a lens which does not have imagestabilizer. I dont want to buy an extra lens with image stabilzercause as I said I mostly use my camera for usual use and notprofessionaly..

Then buy the 400D body or 350D body with the 18-55 IS. It won't be much more than the kits and you'll get a better lens..

But as I said, IS or VR or whatever you want to call it, is just over hyped by manufacturers IMO..

So please tell me that if I buy one of these two orNikon D40 or like that, will I be able to shoot without a tripod?.

Yes, but remember, IS does not eliminate the need for a tripod in every application..

Please name some good cameras that you know ....

The ones you have named are good. I would not hesitate with any of the ones you named, though I do have a Canon preference..

Thanks ....

You're welcome.

I don't know anything about photography. I just like to press the shutter button and hear that sound...

Comment #9

The Olympus E-510, with 2 lens kit. since you are already familiar with the Olympus cameras, you might be well pleased! It's a great camera....and I, too, was interested because of the IS. Love it!.

Good luck!.

LucyE- 510, 40-150 and 14-54 lens!U ZI owner!Olympus C30-20Zhttp://www.pbase.com/lucyFCAS Member #98, Oly Division'Photography is the art of seeing what others do not.'..

Comment #10

Rashid wrote:.

Hi all,.

I want to buy a digital camera and I need some advice,Here is the story:I had a Olympus C-8080 Wide Zoom once and it was the best. Excellentlens and features and image quality and ...Unfortunately somebody stole it , ....Now, I want to buy a new Camera but I haven't been succesful findinga decent camera..

I am familiar with photography and I can make use of a camera'sfeatures but 95 percent of my use of camera is just capturing sceneswith my family and friends and not doing photography for fun, etc.but I dont want to miss some things just because my camera doesnthave enough features to for example give me good result at nights orindoor..

The point is, I am considering buying an EOS 400D or EOS 350D but theproblem is these cameras come with a lens which does not have imagestabilizer. I dont want to buy an extra lens with image stabilzercause as I said I mostly use my camera for usual use and notprofessionaly. So please tell me that if I buy one of these two orNikon D40 or like that, will I be able to shoot without a tripod?.

Please name some good cameras that you know ....

Thanks ....

Hi.

I think you are a candidate for an entry level Pentax or Sony or a Oly E510, I would look at those and entry level Nikon with VR kit lens and Canon with IS kit lens..

I find stabilization a great help, but I do a lot of low light so for me a K100d from Pentax is ideal..

I think a K100d super (if you can find one now) with kit lens and a fa 50 1.4 would be all you need..

Having said that you should really try as many cameras as you can get your hands on and see what you actually like..

All the current entry bodies and kit lenses are good and all are stabilised (except Oly on some cameras)...the Oly kit lens is highly regarded but the Pentax is the one that scores the highest on this sites reviews (and has been replaced by a better lens still), though you might get the old one or the new one...both are good. Even the Sony kit lens, which was not reccomended is actually not that bad.http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/.

Now back to stabilization. it will not help with moving objects, but you can get some nice motion blur while keeping the background sharp, it is really a big help when things get marginal..

Even at something like 70 to 100mm if you want to just pick up a camera indoors at night or when there is no outside light (and when flash is not an option) you may not be able to do so without stabilization. If your kit lens is stabilized that may still not be enough....depends on how bright the lighting is as they are around f5.6 at the long end..

Satbilization is not essential and I have used dslrs and slrs for many years and got by without....it just adds a new dimension and means some lenses that are not that usefull become very useful and all my old manual focus lenses are a pleasure to use in low light....as are things like a tamron 17-35 zoom..

Neil..

Comment #11

I have several Nikons and when I switched to digital I wanted VR lenses because I knew that VR in the lens was somewhat better than in the body. Also I wasn't going to consider the companies that didn't have huge systems..

That said, I've made a fairly large investment in Nikon digital equipment. I've only purchased one VR lens. I've found that it's overrated in my book. Good technique, quality glass, good high ISO perfomance make much more sense than relying on iffy image stabalization, I believe. I end up turning VR off much of the time on that one 70-300 VR lens I have. My 500mm is also not VR and I shoot birds in flight fairly easily with it hand-held..

It requires good technique. If you don't have that, no amount of electronic stabalization will help, I don't care how old you are..

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Comment #12

Guidenet wrote:.

I have several Nikons and when I switched to digital I wanted VRlenses because I knew that VR in the lens was somewhat better than inthe body. Also I wasn't going to consider the companies that didn'thave huge systems..

You knew it was better for YOU...it is not so for everyone..

There are more than enough lenses in all systems for anyone...as with accessories..some have more of one thing others will have more of different things..

That said, I've made a fairly large investment in Nikon digitalequipment. I've only purchased one VR lens. I've found that it'soverrated in my book. Good technique, quality glass, good high ISOperfomance make much more sense than relying on iffy imagestabalization, I believe. I end up turning VR off much of the time onthat one 70-300 VR lens I have. My 500mm is also not VR and I shootbirds in flight fairly easily with it hand-held..

I have made a fairly large investment in Pentax but all told for less than the price of a single stabilised lens I have everything from fisheye to super tele and they are all stabilised..

I ilke using high iso with good fast glass and that was great 4 years ago with an IST*D...that camera sits on a shelf now as the more entry level K100d does the same but with stabilization as a bonus....it just means far more opportunities for me...other people may not want to use their cameras then..

It requires good technique. If you don't have that, no amount ofelectronic stabalization will help, I don't care how old you are..

But good technique and stabilization means even more usability..

Neil..

Comment #13

Guidenet wrote:.

I have several Nikons and when I switched to digital I wanted VRlenses because I knew that VR in the lens was somewhat better than inthe body. Also I wasn't going to consider the companies that didn'thave huge systems..

Whether in-lens or in-body stabilisation is better is debated, but not proven either way, it would seem to vary from system to system. Some lenses are better than others, some bodies are better than others. The only thing that is clear cut is that in lens can provide stabilisation before the reflex mirror (if you choose that mode), and that in body provides stabilisation for every lens you mount..

As for the size of the system, that is a personal choice. I went for the system that has been designed to work together from scratch, rather than one that has evolved over the years with a larger range of equipment but varying degrees of compatability..

That said, I've made a fairly large investment in Nikon digitalequipment. I've only purchased one VR lens. I've found that it'soverrated in my book. Good technique, quality glass, good high ISOperfomance make much more sense than relying on iffy imagestabalization, I believe. I end up turning VR off much of the time onthat one 70-300 VR lens I have. My 500mm is also not VR and I shootbirds in flight fairly easily with it hand-held..

With birds in flight you're generally shooting at a shutter speed high enough to completely freeze motion, so VR/IS really doesn't make a difference..

I agree good technique, good lenses and a body with good image quality is important. Still you say IS/VR is iffy, I say it is quite effective. Look at this shot, handheld at 1/40th @ 600mm equivalent focal length, that's 4 stops below the rule of thumb..

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It requires good technique. If you don't have that, no amount ofelectronic stabalization will help, I don't care how old you are..

In any case, the O.P. was looking for a camera for taking quality photos of family and friends, not a birding rig so all of this is beside the point...

Comment #14

Kurt, I really don't disagree with you..

It's basically for me that IS or VR as not been as usefull as I once thought it would be. I'm not sure why. I suppose that it's me and my non-trust of electronic stabalization. I usually carry a tripod or monopod and want that super sharpness Im guaranteed with it, even when light is good..

Even when VR is on, my rate of keepers is just not as good as when I follow those other rules. I think when most of us rely on IS, we don't follow those other rules like technique quite so religiously..

BTW, nice shot...

Comment #15

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This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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