Ignore it, it's only an email - they can't even prove you recieved it.
Real lawyers would have sent it through recorded delivery mail, and probably not use an AOL email address...
Yes there are. But no, I dont believe this is a valid email because as the person above stated, they cannot prove you actually received this email - and any lawyer worth their salt usually has a nice company email address not an AOL one...
I won't be surprised if it's indeed real. Just remember the Scientology people.
Can use UDRP or even go to Court, and they have the resources to go either.
I once wrote on my blog they're going after the owner of scientomogy.info..
They probably went after the other ones, just that nothing's reported about.
A quick google, interesting results, lots of similar comments out there...... click here..
The email is probably legit. Scientology" related domains, whatever their nature is, don't last long out there.....
Thanks for all the help. I did reply telling them to put it in writing. I also said that I think the email is a scam and that a real attorney would not use an AOL email address. She replied and said that she is a "real attorney", her words.
Maybe a real attorney's assistant.
So, I still don't know what to make of this but I will post again with any new info...
What makes you think you cannot track emails??? I do it just about every single day. I know the exact time and location where the email is opened. Additionally, I know how long they read the email and if they forwarded the email (I also trace all the same info from the person the email was forwarded to). If I was a lawyer, I would track every email I send.... and I 'm sure some do.
As stated before, there is no set way to do a C+D, it may come in email or snail mail and it may be nice or it may be nasty. If you are unsure if the person sending the email legit, do a search....
Are you infringing on the TM? (This means, does the domain have their TM in it (or something confusingly similar)?). If so (and I suspect it does), then ask for a certified letter be sent to you explaining your options...
Send me an email, then tell me when/where I open it..
Hint: There is no way to prove whether someone has read an email or not..
Is this today's joke du jour??? :-).
Unless the end user of the email is very unexperienced, it is impossible to do what you are saying.
Now, as far as the email, I doubt it is legit. However, there is no way to prove that either..
Definately ask to see it in a letter, or, to have ot certified that the person does in fact represent who they say they are representing...
Isn't scientology a religon? how can you trademark a religon?..
The young and naive.....
I did say I was doing it... it's not an assumption and it's not an opinion.
I'm waiting for oliciv to reply to me email I sent him.....
The problem is : Is scientology a religion ? , in france it has been classified as a sect and is forbidden.
For the domain if you have any issue with that transfer the domain to a friend that live outside Usa...
A couple years back I was trying to track someone down who ripped me off.
I had my programmer make a little script for me that served a 1 pixel x 1 pixel transparent gif in the email with a unique tracking code.
If the person opened the email via a email client that showed remote images I got confirmation they received and opened the email, along with the ip address they used at the time to access the email etc.
Spammers use this too, thats why you should have remote images disabled in your email, all you have to do is open the email with remote image viewing enabled for them to know your address is good these days.
I have also been contacted by the main Scientology group in la about a name that infringed on their mark. The person I dealt with was actually very nice, would be a pleasure if more tm people were like the one I dealt with on that domain. I even got a thank you email when I pushed the name to them...
I also don't believe you can ALWAYS do this. Of course I had already thought of the image pixel but that's super easy to kill. I already don't allow ANY images or attachments in my mailbox. Your message could be read in PINE or many mail clients that would clean any tracker you placed...unless of course you are not sending the message via text but PDF or some other file format but that might get tagged as a virus. :-)..
Did you guys ever think that maybe you don't know everything? Do you think maybe there are things you just don't understand? Anyone else want to get on the bandwagon?????.
I think I now have a supporter, right oliciv?? And this have nothing to do with with images..... So people, live and learn and respect, and I hope in the future, instead of trying to diffuse what I (or others who have earned the respect) say, maybe think of what I'm saying.. And yes, I do track all important emails I send out (why would you even question this?).. PM if you want more information.
Anyway oliciv... how did I do???? (I did X out the service so I don't violate advertising restrictions on the forum).
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8.
Not bad, opened it a few different times though in different ways (your report says once). Wonder which one did it...
Did it track both emails you sent? Or just one?..
RE: DNQuest's post about tracking emails: goes to show things are becoming.
More possible every day.
Diddie, it doesn't matter if Scientology's a religion or not. As long as someone.
Can prove trademark rights to the term (and the Scientology people can), it's.
Another thing for domainers around here to take precautions for...
You re right about TM but being forbidden on some countries doesn't give them credit..
I have only received C&Ds by email ... though they did have their own domain rather than using an ISP email address.
The people who say you can't though are right, I read my email in elm, I have all return receipt options off in sendmail and elm... it does not parse html or go off site in anyway while I am reading an email... so tell me just how you would do what you claim for all your emails?..
Just copied my email to my other workstation. Yours set off my virus scanner.
Had I checked my mail on this machine first, I'd never even have seen your email. Try using that in court..
When will kids learn?? There is no file sent with the email...
Btw- I have a map from where you opened it.....
So now can I go back to helping people who need it???..
DNQ..I gotta see this work.
I want to see this in action for myself. :-).
I think your attempt will fail because I am smarter than you. :-)..
I didn't say there was a file, I said it set off my virus scanner. http://img189.exs.cx/img189/8316/dnquest2ql.jpg.
You got your tracking info, because I first opened the email on my laptop which does not have a virus scanner.
This will make you look very unprofessional, and I would expect you to use a lot of business if you were to email customers using this method.
Are you going to respond to theparrot's post?..
I have server virus cleaner so I wonder if this will even get to my regular pop box.
Cmon DNQ...let's have it...
Oli, you still don't get it, but that's ok. So, did I trace your email? Was your assertations that it could not be done incorrect? All I need is yes or no answers.
Lacbrocca, should I send an email to all 25,000 members of the forum to prove the point, or you could just look at this thread to see the results. I think I will choose the latter...
Thinking your smarter does not mean you are always right, I've seen that enough around here to know that.....
You know, you do come off very arrogant, and for a person that thinks he has respect, you sure have not earned it.
I would appreciate to learn from you, however if you take some time and read your posts, you will (hopefully) realize that you have a certain arrogance that usually (but not always) accompanies teenagers on an ego trip..
Again, I would have sincerely liked to learn from you, but your posts just don't quite do it..
Now, If you would like a real challenge, get in touch with me...
Yes, you tracked when I opened it. I made the mistake of not yet installing a virus scanner on my laptop. Most people will not even recieve your emails for this reason.
Would you deal with a company who's emails set off your virus scanner?.
There are very few questions in the "legal issues" forum that can be answered with a simple yes or no. Yours is one of them...
Seeker, if you read my posts, I do have little tolerance for certain types of mentality (kids or ignorance). I will admit that. In this case, something was said to be impossible to do, it was done. Yet, it still goes on. That is lack of respect. If you read my posts, I am straight forward with no BS.
Like when people asks a question and they don't get the answer they want, then they argue with us how we are wrong or how to get around things (even though we know better). That attitude is towards many people here who try to help (like when people argue with known lawyers here) is a lack of respect and understanding.
Seeker, if you really read my posts, someone can learn much from me if they are willing to learn. I go out of my way to truely help people and I will oppose people if they something in accurate (IE- emails can't be tracked). I do this so a person reading these posts do not get mislead and make mistakes or get a wrong understanding. Read my posts and you will see that...
Lol...you should follow your own advice DNQ about those who think they are smart. Nice try with that fake subscription email from Josh. haha..not gonna work buddy...sure what you do works for n00bs but again...you have these blanket statements of your superiority that just don't cut it with me. Yeah let's see you post my info on how I read the email...100% you can't.
I said originally Prove me wrong!..
I am trying to talk about Cease and Desist here and it has turned into an email discussion...
Sorry rsequin but isn't the discussion on your C&D over? Not really much else to say. I think you should ignore the C&D for now...
Lacbrocca, what are you talking about? Who is Josh? and what talk of superiority? I think we are hitting the sauce a little early, eh?.
I know your stance on infringing on TMs, you are in favor it it. But whether it is legal or not is a different story. There isn't enough information provided excpet it deals with "scientology" which is a TM. So if the domain has scientology in it, he is infringing. We have no idea how it is being used or the basis of the registration...
Well someone sent an email to me at that address trying to use the email tracking system. btw I hope you are not saying to me that I am in favor of TM infringement. That's just not entirely true. As you state you have no idea of the basis of how scientology is being used which means you CAN'T say he is infringing. You really love the absolutes don't you. In the US legal system there is a TON of middle ground and that's why we have so many lawsuits here.
Changes occur all the time in the law and how it's interpreted. Sorry but reading lots of WIPO decisions makes me see a bigger picture on how TMs are not always black and white. Otherwise every company would win every WIPO decision...and they don't.
As you say...whether it's legal or not is a different story. That's because it may NOT be illegal under some circumstances...
I'm mystified by the entire discussion of the significance of whether or not the original poster saw the email.
Who cares if he saw the email? Whether or not he is violating a trademark has absolutely nothing to do with whether an attorney uses an AOL account (and some perfectly reputable attorneys do), or whether he saw the email.
I sometimes use a gmail account. BFD.... Anyone can still verify who I am through the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. If you have been contacted by someone claiming to be a California attorney, then you go to www.calbar.ca.gov, and you look them up.
What a silly and pointless discussion...
I think the point of distrusting C&D coming from public email domains (like gmail) is that anyone can - for example - pretend to be a lawyer like J. Berryhill, esq. for whatever nefarious purpose. Like reverse domain hijacking, for instance; it's happened before.
But it's incorrect to merely assume that the email is fraudulent just because of this. To clear your doubts, you should email him back asking for his company email address...
I agree. That is not unique to attorneys. Confirming the identity of an attorney is, however, utterly simple, since every attorney is licensed by the state in which she/he practices...
DNQuest was kind enough to tell me the web site of the company that provides the service. I have checked it out and sure enough, you can track when emails are opened, how many time and sometimes when they are forwarded and other stuff.
But ... looking through to raw email file of one of the emails I sent there are a couple of gifs and even a wav file with full path back to the web site of the email tracking service provider and some other encoded stuff that I don't (yet) understand which weren't there in the email when it left my machine.
Here is a bit of what was in there: And another bit: Interestingly, my ISP provides a web interface to email that doesn't display any images as a security measure against spammers tracking valid emails ... my opening of the email was still detected.
I won't go so far as to say this is impossible, but I remain very skeptical this will work against a secure workstation.
Perhaps they can finesse something out of my mail server, with regards to when the message is downloaded, but how will they track my actual opening of the mail if I don't read it online?.
When I still used Windows I used to use an _oooold_ mail client set to text only + firewall + hardware firewall. I doubt that setup would have given up any info. I don't think my current setup of Linux+firewall would give anything up either.
I'd like to open one of these emails and watch network traffic...
The email that I was sent from this company had an iframe.
When I get contacted by a lawyer I make sure to also verify they are indeed a practicing attourney. It is against the law in most (if not all) states to pose as one...
No deep magic there.
/DERAIL rsequin : My best advice regarding the C&D: Go talk with your lawyer.
IMHO, a forum is not a good place to get advice in legal matters..
If you are worried about the letter being legit. You can always reply and tell them to send it in writting through certified mail. However, this proves that you did in fact read the email. Can you PM me the law firm name? I can do a little research for you on the firm and let you know if it is legit...
I was just amused by the fact that an attorney would send a C&D from their AOL account and regarding the claim of a trademark on a religion.
Anyway, I got the C&D in the mail today from a Los Angeles attorney with proof of Scientology trademarks. I honestly did not think you could trademark a religion.
Does this mean that no one can use CatholicDomain.com or JewishDomain.com?..
If you got the letter then they are serious. I suggest you just drop the name now. Scientologist can be brutal and I doubt keeping the domain is worth it...
The reason they trademark it is so nobody can change their religious writings and still call it scientology - something that happened to other religions...
Why not? As far as words like "Catholic" or "Jewish" go, there is no single organization which is associated with them as marks.
But things like: Word Mark THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.
Goods and Services IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: textbooks for religious instruction and seminarian studies; instructional manuals for teaching gospel, scriptures, priesthood courses and church doctrine, missionary services and administering church welfare; pamphlets featuring church teachings and writings. FIRST USE: 19020000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19020000.
Registration Number 1980319.
Owner (REGISTRANT) Corporation of The President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints CORPORATION UTAH 50 East North Temple, #382W Salt Lake City UTAH 84150.
Word Mark PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH (USA).
Goods and Services IC 016. US 038. G & S: BOOKS AND BOOKLETS ON RELIGIOUS AND CHURCH-RELATED TOPICS. FIRST USE: 19850701. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19850701.
Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS.
Design Search Code 01.15.03 - Fire (flames); Flames.
03.15.10 - Doves.
03.15.19 - Birds or bats in flight or with outspread wings.
03.15.24 - Stylized birds and bats.
24.13.01 - Cross, Latin (shorter horizontal lines); Latin cross (shorter horizontal lines).
26.01.08 - Circles having letters or numerals as a border; Circles having punctuation as a border; Letters, numerals or punctuation forming or bordering the perimeter of a circle.
Registration Number 1431066.
Owner (REGISTRANT) UNITED PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN THE U.S.A., THE CORPORATION PENNSYLVANIA ROOM 1201 475 RIVERSIDE DRIVE NEW YORK NEW YORK 10115.
...are fairly common and unremarkable...
I'd suggest dropping the name, Scientologist is a brutal cult and they have the resources to make your really regret ever having the name. They are able to afford some of the highest priced lawyers & PR firms in the country, and so beware...
Agreed. I would drop the domain unless you feel like rolling the dice on going to court. A bunch of wackos who have too much money IMO... Great literature exists out there about how the Scientologists were founded and their cultish mentality... If Tom Cruise is a Scienctologist you know you should stay away from the group.....