First thing I would do is go to archive.org and try to find out who the previous owner was or if it was even developed.
Domaintools.com also has some nice tools to find information on domain history.
Gathering some of these facts might help you decide if their story holds any water.
It seems legal, or it would be the 1st time I heard such kind of a scam, lol.
I have the same issue with an U.S corp last year, they just wanna take a domain (not a TM, and no related issues, just a 5 Letter acronyms domain) back from me, they are the ex-owner of this name but never used it for this business.
The lawyer told me that they are very confident to get the domain back by bring an accusation against my action, and for a good attitude, they would return me the reg fee to get it back. LOL. I was a bit angry for their words so I simply replied "Thanks but save your reg fee. I registered this domain name for my business in legit way and please don't bother me again.". In the next months, they sent me several emails and finally a manager (instead of the lawyer) contacted me by phone, after an short negotiation, we signed the contract and they purchased the domain for $2.4k.
Archive.org shows it was never developed, simply forwarded to another domain for about 2 years. Then undeveloped for at least 6 months until I got it.
That is about all I can find out. It was not ever used by a company of that name. It sems like they really didn't have legal rights to the name otherwise they would have not paid over 2K for it...
There is some excellent advice above! Make sure you keep careful records. There are almost always complicating issues in situations like this. Perhaps the prior owner is claiming common law trademark rights, although if that is the case they did a terrible job of protecting their common law mark.
Are you using this domain that might in some way be infringing on the (supposed) common law mark? Collect your facts together and take this over to the legal forum here at NP and ask again. There are some great people there that can help. First you need to do a bit more homework to explain the situation and other related facts. Did you do a thorough TM search?.
From the *sounds* of it, you may have legal recourse.
Here is what I do in these situations. Go to archive.org and print out any information that is relevant, then date the printed copy and sign it with a witness. Also try to save the html for the prior site to a file. Sometimes things at Archive.org go away, and you want to keep this information around.
If the other party really said they'll file a DMCA with ICANN, let them. Neither.
ICANN or any UDRP provider is going to do a thing about it, except maybe tell.
Them to file a UDRP instead or go to court.
What you described is more common than some people care to admit. If that.
Former registrant is ready to force the issue, just be ready to defend yourself...
Well at least I know that this is not some type of scam. This really does happen.
What do you know about Globat? I just want to know what I am dealing with before I answer this guy...
Not much, really, except I've read a few cases where Globat didn't renew the.
Domain names of their clients. I'm guessing from that email you got from one.
Of them (supposedly, anyway) is they're trying to make up to their client for.
You really don't have to do anything for either one of them. But if that party,.
Again, is prepared to force the issue, just be ready to deal with it...
THX for your help guys...
It seems to me that if I am forced to sell this domain back to them, they should pay what the names worth, correct?.
After all, I did buy it with hopes of selling it for a profit.
A third party appraisal would be the most fair way to set the "Fair Price" they speak of.
That makes me wonder.... who's appraisals hold the most juice? I'm thinking moniker, but somebody else may have a different idea...
Just as you don't have to do a thing for them, they don't have to do a thing.
For you as well.
Sometimes both parties can negotiate on an agreeable price, others use a 3rd.
Party appraisal. YMMV.
I realize I'm not really making things any possibly easier. I'm just being realistic.
Here, and only you can truly decide the answer on your own...
If you are "forced" as you say, then I wouldn't expect anything beyond reg fee (if that).
Here is another thing to think about. If they are threatening you with a lawsuit and fail to actually file suit, then that is called "barristry", and is itself actionable. A continued threat of suit can be damaging which is why it is actionable. Don't make idle threats.
You are not forced to sell this name back to anyone and they have no claim to this domain.
If I were in your shoes, I would do two things:.
1) email them some free legal advice tell them to file a lawsuit against the registrar (who they claim did not renew the name) for damages..
2) tell them to kiss my ass and that their threats just cost them a chance of acquiring the name at price less than $10,000...
I just love this answer.
At this point it is probably just a bunch of people pounding their chests in an attempt to get something for nothing. If it becomes more then let them know that you can counter sue too.
What was the name of that registrar again??? I will remember that.
I may be able to shed some light on what is going on.
I made the big mistake of becoming a Globat customer.
There is something extremely wrong with the company.
Even though I paid for domain renewals Globat failed to renew the domains. The domains are set to renew automatically and Globat charges your credit card.
They dropped and someone else grabbed them because they were very decent domains.
This happened several times.
They were domains that I regged but had not yet developed.
They were just parked.
I was online part time then and failed to follow up to make sure that Globat did renew the domains.
Since Globat was the Registrar, I never received any notice that my domains were in jeopardy.
This is most likely what happened to the person who owned the domain you now have.
Globat sends an email before the renewal date indicating that the domain will be automatically renewed.
He paid Globat for the domain which was supposed to be automatically renewed and Globat failed to do so.
Now he is putting pressure on Globat and Globat is putting pressure on you.
If Globat "lost" your domain(s), you'd be pissed too.
Sad scenario really,.
In this case, the former domain owner has a claim against Globat (and i'm sure Globat knows this) so that is why Globat is trying to resolve the situation by "reacquiring" the domain from the current owner. the current owner has legally registered this name and has no obligation to sell, transfer or do anything else they do not want to do. Globat should have been honest when contacting the current owner, said they were the former registrar who failed to renew the name for their client and would like to purchase it back at a price fair and acceptable to the current owner. instead, they decided to bully with threats so that is why I recommend telling them to get lost unless they are willing to pay a premium for it.
By the way kellyandbryan, if they ever do make you an acceptable offer, be sure to use an escrow service of your choice at their expense...
I like your attitude. It is my attitude exactly. I hate bullies. I am going to counter-offer him with more than my first counter.
One more thing. I am glad this is being discussed here so maybe other people won't ever use Globat. I see this is not their first lost domain.
If you research Globat on google, all you find is ticked off people...
Check whois history and perhaps contact the previous owner to resolve matters? Or is this bad advice?..
Should I post this question in the legal section, or can it be moved there? I didn't want to post the same thing twice. I know some forums are crazy about that kinda stuff...
I just open the thread which is my current case, please advise me. http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-...se-advice.html..
I would suggest asking one of the moderators to move it to legal in a PM. That is the most appropriate area for this discussion. It appears that the registrar (aka "tortfeasor") has a history of negligence. They have certainly failed in their fiduciary responsibility to protect the properties that they were in charge of for safe keeping. However, that is an issue between the prior registrant and the registrar, not you. At this point you need to just be prepared, and get your records straight.
If you give that domain name back then you will get $150.
If you don't and then it is forced back from you and given to the previous owner you will lose $150.
Now for $150 will you take the risk of losing the domain name or not. Because in any case you will not have that domain anymore. Even if you give it to them for $150 or just hang on with it.
So if I was in your place I would forget $150 and tell them to go ahead and give it a try...
Thanks for moving it. Hopefully somone with legal experience will comment on this.
BTW I responded to Globat that they could buy the name for the nameboy appraisal price, which is over $5000..
Don't worry. Globat is rich enough to pay you. These people have to pay for their own mistakes. If you just accepted the $150, they'd never learn and continue to put their customers' names at risk.
I'd assume that now Globat will go back to the previous owner and says that there was a systems glitch or technical error that prevented the domain name from being renewed on their side, and it got snapped up by somebody else. Then they'd also say they'll be nice and refund the registration fee. And advise the previous owner to directly negotiate with the current owner. It's up to the current owner whether to negotiate with you, or file against Globat for "failing to perform a duty of care" and/or file against you if they have a case for "TM infringement"...
Personally I think it's not a good idea to refer to an automated appraisal, they are worthless. It suggests you have no idea what the name could be really worth and it hurts your leverage in future negotiations..
Besides I find it low class from globat to bully you for THEIR mistake. I am not impressed with groundless threats. That kind of attitude would lead me to increase my price or not sell at all. And DMCA has nothing to do with ICANN AFAIK. It looks like they are playing the ugly acronyms card to scare you...
A few points to consider:.
- most registrars have terms whereby they limit their responsibility to reg fee so that even if they lose a name you don't get more than a refund.
- I hear globat is not a registrar but a reseller, most likely they have similar terms but it can make it more difficult to identify which party is responsible. As a rule it is best to deal with ICANN accredited registrars and avoid middlemen. I am not even sure globat really has an obligation (other than moral of course) to recover the name for their client at their expense, but their tactics stink.
By their own admission they have no legal grounds against you so I would stand firm. It's up to you to decide if you will sell or not and decide a reasonable amount... don't be too greedy..
This isn't a scam...it's a strong-arm tactic. Don't fall for it. IGNORE them...it will piss them off even more. Eventually they will have to either create real legal action which they can't win OR pay you a fair sum. Globat just got their name dragged through the mud on this one.
Honestly...don't respond to their emails anymore even if they are threats. Your positions as legitimate owner seems fairly clear here. The only email you should respond to is one where they give you a $x,xxx offer...
The domain went through the complete delete and drop scenario. All of those days are there to give an owner a chance to redeem an expired domain. Since they didn't, the domain is now yours free and clear of encumberances.
Globat can threaten all day and night, but it's just harmless barking...
Labrocca's advice sounds...well, sound. Considering the facts, it does seem probable that Globat is afraid of the previous owner suing them for damages or breach of contract or whatever (I have very little knowledge of legal stuff), and they are trying to bully you into giving them back the name by dropping nasty acronyms, essentially acting very naughty in trying to cover their own asses. If there are no TM issues, as said above, after due drop process the name is legally in your control.
I agree with Labrocca's suggestion to ignore all emails, better to stay cool and professional than start sending them messages you might regret later.
Thanks guys - that is exactly my plan - JUST IGNORE THEM. I stated very clearly, in my response, that the name is mine and the problem is in between them and their customer. I am not involved at all.
I thought when I first read this, that I was not really involved or obligated to sell, but just wanted to be sure by running it thru this forum first. I told them I would talk about selling it to them at a price set by a 3rd party (moniker appraisals) otherwise they can deal with their customer another way. I'm out.
I made no threats or sounded like a jerk in any way. THX for the help so far. I will update more when they email me with another threat on monday morning...
I haven't read all of this but from what I read, it's a scam. See, ppl are scared of anything that seems like a legit threat from the 'big fish.' I believe someone wanted the domain and after seeing that you wouldn't accept the $100 offer, they pretended to be part of a big industry business so as to scare you into taking their lowball offer. If it was all legit, wouldn't they at least postal mail you via your whois info? Ignore them, I advise, until/if they send you court papers or something. It's not a huge scam, I don't think; someone just wants the domain at a cheap price...
As suspected, I have received 2 more emails from Globat so far. First one: I understand, just let me know what your last price is and I will go from there. If the price does not work, no worries, the only thing the last registrant can do is contact you and obtain it back through DMCA (if he wants to peruse that method)this will be out of my hands.
The second: Bryan, why did you increase the price? You originally wanted $xxx.00 and now for an unknown reason you increase the price to $xxxx.00. Totally unacceptable and unethical way of dealing with someone is trying to resolve an issue. However, since you have already made up you mind I have informed the customer who forgot to renew their domain name about their optionsthrough DMCA and ICANNand if the need be, we will have our legal team assist him.
Bryan, even though you lawfully registered the domain name the previous owner can obtain it back legally by supplying a government issued trademark documentation illustrating their objective rights to this domain, or at the very least, an invoice that indicates that he is the prior registrant of this domain.
Do you have a policy against registering and/or holding on to domain names in derogation of legitimate rights holders? If so, what is your policy?.
This is really getting funny. I am waiting to hear from the previous owner. Trust me there is no trademark issue on this name. This guy is crazy...
The first rule of C&D:.
1/ The nastier the threat up front the shakier the legal position is.
(It's the nice legal letters from lawyers that scare me).
My second rule is.
2/ You threatened me needlessly. Price is double.
They have NOTHING tell them to go pound salt...
They talk about both ICANN (do they mean Wipo ?) and DMCA. It looks like they don't really know what they are talking about.
To sum up: the only argument that they seem to be bringing forward is that they/their client forgot to renew the domain. No demonstration of TM rights..
That alone does not give them a preemptive right over the domain name..
Perhaps it's time to ask them if they know the meaning of reverse hijacking..
He is crazy and doesn't know what he is saying. I told him that and told him to leave me alone unless he wants to purchase the name at the appraisal price.
BTW I dont know what reverse hijacking is LOL..
Right about now would be a good time to learn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_domain_hijacking..
I've heard of that before but didn't know it had an official name. Sounds like what is happening here..
Oh, it's not really an official name. You know how we humans have this desire.
To put a label on things.
Personally, I'd stop replying to that person from Globat. But keep the emails...
HE DIDN'T ANSWER BACK AFTER I TOLD HIM TO GO AWAY - SO MAYBE ITS OVER? WE'LL SEE.............
Ok one more thing.. I really want to find the previous owner of my domain, but I can't seem to get that info anywhere without a subscription to some service that I porobably will never use. Is there anyone who would be able to look it up for me? PM me if you can. I would like to contact them and see if this whole thing is true or not...
You can PM me if you want me to search whois history for the name...