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Question to the pro out there...our anyone else for that matter
Hello,.

I just registered yesterday, and first of all ..."jonquil"?!?!? what was that...i typed sopor (not my real name either-just a nick) and since it was already take dpreview decided by them selves to address me this name ... ok ...i don't get it, but lets forget about it..

I'm addressing you because I would to understand the differences (and i'm not talking about price) between film an digital photography..

I'm not asking about quality differences either, as i'm sure, anyone as read lots of opinions about this too, as I have..

What I'm asking is after the shot taken, what can you do with film (with no digital processing what so ever) and what you can do with digital..

What I mean is, with film...it's possible to just sharpening or not (don't forget, no digital processing) exposure(i guess it might be, but i'm no pro), etc..

With digital the same (although who ever has at least a RAW capable camera already knows from start what you can do directly in the camera white-balance, exposure, sharp, contrast, saturation, etc)..

Also, I don't think, for this discussion we should talk about "changing" what you shot, like shading, blurring, or any other tool we can use to change what you have just shot. I mean what matters here is you shoot something in film or digital, and want to have a print of that straight away good and without any major adulteration of what you really could shoot..

Regards to you all,.

Carlos Santos..

Comments (13)

Jonquil wrote:.

Hello Jonquil .

Hello,What I'm asking is after the shot taken, what can you do with film(with no digital processing what so ever) and what you can do withdigital..

This is probably a question for the retouching forum..

I mean what mattershere is you shoot something in film or digital, and want to have aprint of that straight away good and without any major adulterationof what you really could shoot..

So you want a good photo with minimal processing, that's reasonable..

Film - you select the film and processing type and you get results based on it..

Digital - you can select similar features to film in-camera. Sharpening, saturation, contrast, etc. You can dial in the settings you want and replicate film's results for these settings (if that's what you want)..

Either way you can end up with great images straight out of the camera. Make sure your digital camera model has these adjustments. Cheap point and shoot cameras don't have them, but good point and shoot cameras and all SLRs (AFAIK) have plenty of adjustment options as well as some pre-defined profiles..

-Porter..

Comment #1

Oceanofapathy wrote:.

Jonquil wrote:.

Hello Jonquil .

Hi Porter.

First of all thank you for your reply..

Seems to me, you the kind of photographer I was looking to get some tips from.If you might i'll leave you my "gmail" so we could talk more often..

So you want a good photo with minimal processing, that's reasonable..

In fact that's exactly my point, great (spontaneous) moments are very dificult to capture, and every day we read everywhere that it's not what you hold in your hands that makes good photos, it's the photographer.

Film - you select the film and processing type and you get resultsbased on it..

I have to say, I felt some shock reading this, and don't miss understand me, first of all I should have read something about photography trough film first..

The truth is I only had P&S film cameras until my one 35mm film camera witch I liked pretty much but after I lost it in some school trip. I must say, although it P&S that Fujifilm never let me down on my expectations, I pretty much liked taking lots of photos with it..

After this I got a Olympus APS film type camera, a from that day until I got my first digital camera (in 2003) I felt very frustrated about photography, I just couldn't get anything right with it. Heavy "noise" if you can call that on film, and the photos exposed over each other, I believe this wasn't my fault maybe the camera had something wrong on it, but it sure scared my appetite for photography with it!.

It as been almost a year since I got a Pentax K10D my last digital and first SLR, and I always wondered how could I get closer to what was working with a film camera, and try keep truth with film options only in a digital camera of course..

I fill like i'm still getting the grip on it, but I just love to shoot with it. Landscapes and some family portraits mostly for now.With these subjects I can train the best settings right? or should I try other?.

Digital - you can select similar features to film in-camera.Sharpening, saturation, contrast, etc. You can dial in the settingsyou want and replicate film's results for these settings (if that'swhat you want)..

Ok, and what about white balance, in film cameras this isn't an issue or is it? are there some film type for that too?.

Anyway thanks for your feedback..

Regards,Carlos..

Comment #2

In broad terms, there's three kinds of film..

Slide film only has one "generation" to it. The actual matrial that goes into the camera ends up as the final photograph, and there's very little that can be done to modify the image..

Slide film can be underexposed or overexposed, and them over developed or under developed, changing the image slightly, but that's it..

Then there's color negative and black and white negative film..

With both of these, film is put into the camrea, developed, and then an enlarger of some type transfers the negative into a positive image on another medium, usually paper..

With digital, you can turn color into black and white either in the camera or in a computer..

With film, you can shoot color film, get a color negative, and then make Black and white prints..

With color negas, you can make prints darker or lighter, just like digital, You can make the image more blue, red, green yellow, etc by using filters..

Using n enlarger instead of a photoprocessing machine, llikeyou find in an one hour lab, you can burn in an image, making parts darker, or you can dodge an image, making parts lighter..

Witrh film you can soften.blur an image in processing, but you can't make a fuzzy image any sharper, which you can do with digital..

With negatives, you can alter contrast either through filtration in the enlarger, or by choosing different photo papers..

BAK..

Comment #3

BAK wrote:.

Witrh film you can soften.blur an image in processing, but you can'tmake a fuzzy image any sharper, which you can do with digital..

Actually, you can. In fact, the Unsharp Mask in Photoshop (and other image editors) gets it name from a film technique..

Per Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsharp_masking.

"Unsharp masking is an image manipulation technique now familiar to many users of digital image processing software, but it seems to have been first used in Germany in the 1930s as a way of increasing the acutance, or apparent sharpness, of photographic images. The "unsharp" of the name derives from the fact that the technique uses a blurred, or "unsharp", positive to create a "mask" of the original image. The unsharped mask is then combined with the negative, creating the illusion that the resulting image is sharper than the original."..

Comment #4

Well, since you added: " our anyone else for that matter " here goes:.

FILM..

You are pretty much stuck with the developed negative. Not much you can do to it once it's dry..

If you shoot B/W then you then move into the -.

Darkroom.

Where it's dark and cramped with chemicals and trays and tweezers and water and vinegar and and termometers and boy - does it ever get stuffy and hot in there. And sometimes &/#@"0)& people walk in! Oh yes, there's a lot of paper in drawers and boxes there and an enlarger and lith film and a timer and a focusing aid. Its also very hard to hear what the wife says thru the door covered with a blanket. And you spend hours and hours in there doing stuff you can do in Photo Shop with a filter and the click on a brush. And then you have to clean up. And I loved every moment of it!Double exposing is easy, but you can't sharpen a blurry negative..

If you shoot COLOR you then send the film to the -DeveloperWhile you keep your fingers crossed.And you can't sharpen a blurry negative there either.But double exposing is still easy.

And if you forgot what kind of film you had in the camera - you couldn't do much about "White Balance" neither.And you looked in awe upon those gifted few who did their color work at home..

DIGITAL..

Well, I'm a noob and a lazy one at that so I don't think as much when shooting as back in the day. I shoot more though. And I have a mini digital darkroom in my camera and a larger on on my PC..

Do I miss my old darkroom? -Yes I do.Do I have a darkroom? No..

Am I impressed by people who show off digitally enhanced and artistical effects done in PS? Yes - but it has to be real good!.

Do I still enjoy taking pictures and doing post processing? You bet!.

And there is a little bit of hope for the "not too blurry image". Double exposure is a bit trickier, although not impossible..

So, in conclusion - I can do more today than I could before - and I do, but to answer your question: Streight from the camera - my shots were better before and I don't think that will ever change. I just hope that my finished product will eventually be better than before..

TomWho is getting old and whos mind likes to wander or should I say ramble on...

Comment #5

So I think I have a pretty good perspective on the differences..

With film photography, color was a pain in the neck. Few people shot anything other than slides because color printing was FAR more trouble than many were willing to deal with. You were at the mercy of the film manufacturers and the photo processors to do a good job and if even doing a 'good job' on exposure and processing didn't give you the image you were looking for, you were out of luck. with digital, 'tweaking' the image is far more possible, allowing the photographer the ability to display what he saw in his mind's eye..

Removing from discussion, the enhanced ability for digital to be manipulated, eliminates much of the reason for digital photography in my mind. I'm not talking about heavy editing here; I'm not talking about adding people to scenes they were never at. I'm talking about the ease with which color and exposure can be corrected, after capture AND before. Stuff that COULD be done a bit with film, but only with great difficulty..

Digital has shifted the emphasis from recording the world as you perceive it with a set of rigidly defined set of tools, to recording the world as YOU experience it. And that makes all the difference in the world to me..

I believe digital has made me a better and more thoughtful photographer since it has allowed me to spend more energy thinking about the subject both before and after capture and less energy just dealing with the logistics of capture and presentation. Is that more narcissistic? Perhaps, but aren't all artists sort of narcissistic at least a bit?STOP Global Stasis! Change is good!.

Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos..http://www.photo.net/photos/GlenBarrington..

Comment #6

Hello again,.

For start, thank you all for your input on my question..

Even if what you just have told me about film, resuming for some of you, more than 40 years experience it like 0,0001% of what shooting film is really all about, that tiny part you shared, helped me clear my mind even though my shooting is only for private use (ok some I already shared with the family and friends, truth must be told)..

I felt like I lost something in the way with film, but now I feel more comfortable about what to do..

Personally, i'm glad i'm not a PS artist and don't feel the need for that anymore, I rather feel the need to improve my skills with what, and how to best capture what I see and like..

Maybe some exposure compensation now and then won't hurt, blurring who knows it helps creating some environment, sharpening to the minimal (even I don't see that well!At least if I capture what I thought I saw that day, that would be great!)..

Glen I did like the "changes" on St Augustine Bedroom, paint like, neon outlines, strangely I didn't felt the same about the "window" picture, and I like straight shooting and "print" more my self..

Thank you all, again and surely would appreciate to see what you all have to share..

Respectful regards,.

Carlos Santos..

Comment #7

Any idea what a beginners forum is all about?.

BAK..

Comment #8

Glen Barrington wrote:.

Digital has shifted the emphasis from recording the world as youperceive it with a set of rigidly defined set of tools, to recordingthe world as YOU experience it. And that makes all the difference inthe world to me..

Well said..

Tom..

Comment #9

You don't have to like everything I do. I've always felt you can learn more from the people who dislike your work and who can tell you why, than you can from people love it..

People who like your work, think too much like you do. How can anyone get a new perspective if someone is always telling you how wonderful you are. (never been much of a problem in my case - as a rule, I get LOTS of new perspective)..

But then again, there IS a difference between criticism and being mean. You can't learn anything from mean people.STOP Global Stasis! Change is good!.

Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos..http://www.photo.net/photos/GlenBarrington..

Comment #10

Er...i think I do...i just thought this wasn't a question for the beginners to answer, so I posted it were maybe a pro or advanced photographers would frequently go...

Comment #11

Glen Barrington wrote:.

People who like your work, think too much like you do. How cananyone get a new perspective if someone is always telling you howwonderful you are. (never been much of a problem in my case - as arule, I get LOTS of new perspective)..

Glen, mind you if I disagree, not everyone who likes your work think like you, as a matter of fact I liked what you did with the photos precisely because they gave me a new perspective, one wich I don't apply to mine but doesn't mean I can't like it..

Regards,.

Carlos..

Comment #12

Jonquil wrote:.

Er...i think I do...i just thought this wasn't a question for thebeginners to answer, so I posted it were maybe a pro or advancedphotographers would frequently go..

That was BAK's attempt of ridiculing me for correcting him. If you look at this thread in the "Threaded view," you will note that his response was directed at me..

Basically, he wrote that you can not sharpen a photo with film. I said that the digtal sharpening was based on the film technique, so he was incorrect. He then responded that this was a beginner's forum implying that my correction was too advanced for beginners..

Of course I'm not sure that processing color negatives and burning and dodging are beginner techniques either...

Comment #13

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This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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