Paypal is owned by Ebay. The company is worth billions. They are strict because fraud is rampant in their system and these measures are in place for the safety of members...
That's exactly the problem. Legitimate customers have to jump through hoops to purchase anything online these days.
Unfortunately, there is always going to be a few trying to get something fraudulently, causing a headache for the remaining honest people...
Don't get me started with paypal(and I know it is only good if you do low key transactions with them) but they basically shut down my business account which I used to charge my customers(because they offer recurring billing)...3 months ago one of my customer had their CC info stolen and initiated a charge back with their CC company, well paypal put that charge back on my account in january, even the transactions happened in october, november, december 2009, money was payed out to me with no problem....make a long story short, I disputed the charge backs(since I clearly provided contracts along with the right CC information etc)...k, now we are into March 2010, I still cannot use my paypal account because I have the charge backs sitting in my account + for each charge back I was charged a $10 charge back fee???? wtf, if this doesn't smell fishy I don't know what else...and yes, I have had countless of phone calls with paypal regarding this issue....i will just go ahead and post my story on PayPal Alternative - Pay Pal Lawsuits, PayPal Complaints & Fraud (and I know I shouldn't have relayed on them but it was a matter of no choice back then).
In my case it is not like I have money frozen in my account, I just cannot use it because it is overdrawn....but I know a couple f people personally who had their account frozen, with a lot of money in it.
But Jesse, you tell me...a company worth billions of dollars cannot clear up an obvious mistake/problem quicker??(and they gave me on the phone the whole lame spiel about the consumer law) it sure looks like another way of sucking "free"money from customers...have you ever thought about the fact that even these days banks/ money institutions still need 1 to 5 business days to wire/credit money into your account...the longer they have your money the more they can play with it, gain from it...sure, all in the name of safety....my ass.... :-).
Anyway, I am on my way to find a real merchant lol.
Liquidcherry - So you owe them like $40? Jeez...I guess you've never dealt with a real bank. Late fees and overdraft charges are very high. I've had hundreds of dispute with paypal payments and never had them shut me down for it.
I've done single transactions in the $5k range.
If you cut out paypal as a payment method you'll lose out on a lot more than some $10 fees. Consider it a part of doing business.
Btw I've never seen PP charge me a chargeback fee. Most merchant accounts will want $25-$40 for a chargeback even if you counter the claim and win. You'll also get less orders and many merchant accounts want $250-$500 for setup. You'll probably need a more complex script too. The alternatives to Paypal are going to cost you lost more than you think...
I have dealt with a couple merchants before and you are right but PP is just getting anoying, so I have to bite the bullet I guess...especially a real merchant wouldn't pull that crap on you.....
From what I understand PayPal was charged as well and they simply reversed those transactions that were charged back. Do you expect them to take the loss ? It really doesn't matter that you had contracts for those transactions if the transactions were charged back. You should have go to the original buyer and explain the situation.
I really don't see how PayPal is guilty in this situation.
I don't think PayPal is in any financial trouble. More than sure they're making a killing considering the fees they charge...
PayPal is a very profitable arm of ebay. Its revenues is predicted to surpass ebay's auction market. eBay: PayPal Revenue To Double By 2011.
If you're doing high volume, high revenue transactions using PayPal, I suggest retaining an attorney for your business. In case of a dispute, they will respond more favorably...
Oh yeah? I had a merchant account once for my store (brick and mortar) and I did about 10% of my charges via key entry as I proccessed my online orders manually to search for fraud. Well this was a "deal" merchant that approached me wanting my business and offering me a great discount rate. I figured I would save $2500 a year. I was doing $xxx,xxx per year in charges.
Well after the second month I had about 3 chargebacks. Relatively small percentage and inline with my normal chargebacks. Two of them were from my online store so they were keyed-in entries. I disputed them both since I had shipped with signature and had proof of delivery to the address which matched the system at time of sale. Should be a winner for me right...WRONG.
Not only did they charge me $25 for each chargeback but I also lost a dispute I clearly won costing me another $150 in product. That's not the end of the story either.
Normally merchant accounts close out daily and within 2 days you have the days funds in your bank (ACH). A week goes by and I notice no money being deposited. I guess they had some freaking fine print in their contract (surprise surprise) because when I called they told me I had a hold on the account now for 60 days. That meant I was going to get NOTHING for 60 days instead of traditional 2. That's outrageous and represented $xx,xxx being taken from me. I had no choice but to cancel their service at which point they held my money from that week for 6 months! Which btw they never sent me anyways.
That wasn't a lot of money to me.
Lesson here....Paypal ain't as bad as you think. It's really not that much different than most processors or banks. They'll screw you over when they can that's a guarantee but at least you get screwed over while recieved the max amount of income possible.
Alertpay chargebacks are $25 I believe.
Moneybookers is almost completely useless for payments..
Merchant accounts are costly and people don't trust it. Money isn't instant. Chargeback fees range from $10-$50. Unless you're doing high volume you won't get a great rate either.
It's all a cluster-f*ck...
This free merchant account link come from PapyalSucks.. PayPal Alternative, Alternatives To PayPal, Merchant Account, Accept Credit Cards Online - Home..
I am not expecting them to take the loss, I am just extremely p'd that A:.
I provided the from PP requested contracts/ CC Authorization forms from the client and was told"that's all what we need, we will take of this problem and remove the chargebacks" and after a week I called back and discovered that I was BS'ed, and had to resubmit the forms(for each CB seperately) the Rep basically did nothing and gave me false information, b/c regarding to the next Rep they where not supposed to tell me "we remove the charge backs".
We are heading now into middle of April and even after a couple phone calls to PP there is still no solution(o wow all I receive is every ohter day a mail"your account is below zero, click here to resolve")lol.
I even got a different CC info from the client who knows about the mess I encounter and got in contact with their CC company...so what is the holdup here??.
PP charged me an additional 10 bucks for the first CB, (3 in total) and after realizing that I called in and had the first one removed(#2 and #3 was not processed that time)with a big apology...but I have to ask you how you would feel after you have been hit with a charge back in your PP account what was not your fault in the first place and you get charged an extra amount(i am glad there was no money in my account and they didn't pulled it from the associated Bankaccount but can you imagine someone else had money in there, counting on it in his/her budget just to discover this?).
I was forced to use Google what was a pain in the ass and cost me several hours, not to mention there is no recurring billing option...and again, PP shouldn't eat the fees I agree but I had to waste a lot of my time (what is also money)for a charge back initiated for transactions months ago??..give me a break, if yu are serious about your business you get to the problem right away and don't state"it can take a while to resolve this"..if they would have solved the problem in a decent amount of time I wouldn't bitch at all but given the fact that I was not able to conduct business with my PP accunt for almost 3 months now(and heck I don't even wanna calculate the fees they got from me, using them since 5 years...).
I can go on and on but let it put me in one sentence....paypal suxx :-(.
Liquid Post added at 12:20 AM Previous post was at 12:14 AM I agree with you Jesse, looks like there is no solution at all 4 that merchant mess lol ( I was also screwed over by charge.com in the past).
Sounds to me that the money you have lost in time, aggravation, and earnings wasn't worth it. You should have eaten the loss and moved on. Even now you're probably having problems because of your negative balance. I don't see a reason why you can't fix that and conduct business while still fighting those charges. Paypal probably sees your neg balance and just discounts you as another loser they don't need.
How negative are you?..
A merchant account comes with it's share of costs and risk.
However, the biggest advantage of having one, assuming one does decent sales volume, is cutting PayPal out of the process allowing you to better fraud screen and challenge chargebacks more directly.
Be aware that for transactions being claimed as fraudulent there is no set time limit for the card holder to file. The keyword there is "file" - now once the cardholder files, then the usual time limits kick in from the filing date.
And hence getting a chargeback(s) from a few months back is a common issue and is why PayPal often mentions they may hold money for upto 180 days, such as if one's account is suspended, before allowing withdrawal.
Some cardholders, often those experiencing financial difficulties, who do a lot of on-line transactions, will purposely claim fraud and file chargebacks with the expectation that many merchants won't have the required documentation and/or won't respond in time. Easy way to reduce one's debt / get money back. Illegal, but the card companies generally don't care, because it's the merchant who most often gets stuck with the loss.
For chargebacks filed very long after the fact, as in over a year later, those are often a result of divorce or bankruptcy proceedings.
IMHO, pay the chargebacks and related fees, especially since they're so nominal, and move on. For "card not present" transactions, especially, one is always playing the odds (whether it be PayPal, Paymate, merchant acct, etc) for chargebacks - buildup a financial cushion / factor in such potential losses into your business model.