snubbr.com

Live View - Do I need it?
Hi everyone,.

I'm trying to buy my first DSLR. I'm defnitely a novice and am just going to use it to take pictures of my kids. I was almost set on the Cannon Rebel XTi when I saw the XSi. I don't need 12 megapixels but am curious about the Live View. What's your opinion about the advantages/disadvantages? Is it worth the extra money?..

Comments (20)

...particularly on cameras with non-flipping, non-twisting LCDs..

It's useful for precisely manually focusing on stationary subjects when the camera is mounted on a tripod. If the LCD actually flipped/twisted, it'd also be potentially useful as a waist-level viewfinder (or, for that matter, for holding above one's head) if fast AF is not required and the latency inherent in a finite frame rate is acceptable..

It's not that useful when you want fast autofocus, since phase-detection generally beats contrast-detection (or, for that matter, phase-detection plus a mirror bounce) by quite a bit. It's not that useful when you need split-second timing instead of seeing frames drawn as the scene -used- to be. It's not that useful when you'd rather have the camera braced against your face in order to to increase stability, especially with a fixed LCD..

For general purpose, use the optical viewfinder...

Comment #1

Live View is useful if you do Macro and/or a good deal of manual focus work..

What is needed that you have not mentioned is in body Image stabilization. Neither of your projected cameras has it. Having had a camera without it and a camera with it. I will NEVER have a camera without it again..

MaddogOlympus E-510 and a bunch of stuff to hang on it...

Comment #2

Very useful for subjects containing bright lighting and shadows as you can see exactly where the highlights are blowing out as you adjust your exposure and/or metering position. This with the aid of the histogram will give you a shot exposed how you want it. You will have difficulty getting a correct exposure for this type of subject using an optical viewfinder alone. Perhaps one day when sensors have an extra 2 or 3 stops of DR to play with..

Cheers..

Comment #3

Hmmm..

I shot with a Konica Minolta P&S for several years, and I always used live view. I didn't even know what a "view finder" was at the time..

Now, I have a D300 with live view, and I don't even use it because I'm so used to the view finder. So, do you need it? Probably not..

Brandon..

Comment #4

Please explain how in-body IS will help the OP take better pictures of his/her kids??? Sure if the pictures are posted and the kids are stationary, I can see your point however if the kids are moving at all, I don't see how IS is going to help him..

Your advice sounds a little shaky if you ask me. The concept of IS (in-body or in-lens) is to reduce blur caused by camera shake - not subject motion. Camera shake is noticable at slower shutter speeds. If the OP is going to take pictures of their kids, they would be better to be able to boost the ISO so that they get a higher shutter speed so that they have a better chance of stopping the action..

I am not saying that he should get a Canon or any other body. But your advise is wrong for moving subjects..

Maddogmd11 wrote:.

Live View is useful if you do Macro and/or a good deal of manualfocus work..

What is needed that you have not mentioned is in body Imagestabilization. Neither of your projected cameras has it. Having hada camera without it and a camera with it. I will NEVER have a camerawithout it again..

MaddogOlympus E-510 and a bunch of stuff to hang on it...

Comment #5

I own a D80 and a D300. I thought that I might have used for Live View, but it turns out not. I suppose if the LCD were hinged such that I could swing it out when the camera was in a tough position during macro work, but it doesn't..

My D300 gives me a great 100% view through the viewfinder and it's bright and contrasty. The back LCD let's me check my shot and shoot again if I wish. This is much faster and easier, you'll find..

When you purchase an SLR, you're buying into a system. You might never purchase another item, but you also might fall in love with the hobby and wish to expand. IMO, only Nikon and Canon have a large enough system with a plethora of lenses, speedlights, bellows, converters, etc. Don't get me wrong. Olypus, Sony and Pentax make good equipment. They just don't have that huge system behind them that Canon and Nikon have to support the budding enthusiast...

Comment #6

ShawnCo wrote:.

Please explain how in-body IS will help the OP take better picturesof his/her kids??? Sure if the pictures are posted and the kids arestationary, I can see your point however if the kids are moving atall, I don't see how IS is going to help him..

Your advice sounds a little shaky if you ask me. The concept of IS(in-body or in-lens) is to reduce blur caused by camera shake - notsubject motion. Camera shake is noticable at slower shutter speeds.If the OP is going to take pictures of their kids, they would bebetter to be able to boost the ISO so that they get a higher shutterspeed so that they have a better chance of stopping the action..

I am not saying that he should get a Canon or any other body. Butyour advise is wrong for moving subjects..

I'll explain. I fully understand that IS (in body or lens) is to reduce camera shake and not motion blur. I am assuming that, as with most kids we are not always talking about "close ups". I had kids in marching band for 7 years. I often had to take pictures with long lenses in not great light (under the lights at football games). I sure wish I had IS.



There are similar times in sports and other events, graduation, school plays, etc where having IS would be very helpful particulary if you can't use a flash or are not close enough for it to be effective..

I hope this clears up why I believe that IS is important. Certainly much more important then Live View for what the OP stated their use would be..

MaddogOlympus E-510 and a bunch of stuff to hang on it...

Comment #7

Maddogmd11 wrote:.

I'll explain. I fully understand that IS (in body or lens) is toreduce camera shake and not motion blur. I am assuming that, as withmost kids we are not always talking about "close ups". I had kids inmarching band for 7 years. I often had to take pictures with longlenses in not great light (under the lights at football games). Isure wish I had IS.



There are similar times in sports and other events, graduation,school plays, etc where having IS would be very helpful particularyif you can't use a flash or are not close enough for it to beeffective..

Those are good examples and certainly plausible...if you have a 200mm lense and can't get 1/200 sec I can appreciate that maybe one stop may be able to help, but if you get too slow, you still get motion blur...which isn't always bad, in the marching band scenario, 1/200 you would still probably get a baton twirling, much slower and you will probably get more blurred...but then again, I haven't shot a marching band in a long time. I did shot a friends graduation ceramony, poor gym lighting, with an IS lense (105mm at the tele end), and I still got motion blur at f4..

I hope this clears up why I believe that IS is important. Certainlymuch more important then Live View for what the OP stated their usewould be..

I will agree that Live View isn't probably very important for the OP..

MaddogOlympus E-510 and a bunch of stuff to hang on it...

Comment #8

Maddogmd11 wrote:.

I'll explain. I fully understand that IS (in body or lens) is toreduce camera shake and not motion blur..............I hope this clears up why I believe that IS is important. Certainlymuch more important then Live View for what the OP stated their usewould be..

I think what you are saying is that Image Stabilisation is important not that IN BODY IS is important..

I would certainly agree with you that it is far more important than live view (Had that on my Oly E20 years ago and never used it) but the jury is out on whether IN BODY IS is better than in lens..

BODY - Pro - Every lens get stabilised Con - Difficult to optimise to particular focal length, No stabilisation of VF image (so that is where Live view may have some use with very long lenses but there are rather too many gotchas).

LENS Pro - Image in VF is stabilised, IS tailored to lens focal length Con - more expensive..

Personally I think in lens is better but that IS/VR is a luxury and I would prefer older quality glass over newer IS/VR lenses. IS/VR cannot stop action. High ISO can. So a low noise high ISO camera largely eliminates the need for IS/VR except with long lenses (say 150mm plus) where the stabilised VF view is a definite advantage..

I am not anti IS/VR but much like CCD shake clean systems it is another feature that is often overated. I would go for IQ first second and third and large system and range of equipment fourth fifth and sixth, then VR. Live View would come about 50th on my list. In short it is vastly overated and I would resent paying extra for a cam that had it!.

Chris Elliott.

*Nikon* D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile.

Http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/..

Comment #9

Unfortunately Live View in DSLRs is in it's infancy & isn't as useful as it might be..

A fixed LCD limits it's usefulness greatly - it's pretty much only useful for landscape/macro photography using a tripod for stationary subjects. Not really going to be much use for the kids !!.

Simon.

Http://www.landscapephotographyuk.com/.

North Wales photographs - Snowdonia & Anglesey..

Comment #10

Do you need it? Not if it isn't of the tilt and flip out variety which enables the taking of more creative shots from different angles. Sony have announced the Alpha 350 model with this feature..

DSLRs don't take kindly to being held out at arm's length like a P&S, so fixed LCD live view is only of practical use on a tripod..

John.Please visit me at:http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/backtothebridgehttp://www.pbase.com/johnfr/digital_dartmoor..

Comment #11

Chris Elliott wrote:.

I think what you are saying is that Image Stabilisation is importantnot that IN BODY IS is important..

I would certainly agree with you that it is far more important thanlive view (Had that on my Oly E20 years ago and never used it) butthe jury is out on whether IN BODY IS is better than in lens..

BODY - Pro - Every lens get stabilised Con - Difficult to optimise toparticular focal length, No stabilisation of VF image (so that iswhere Live view may have some use with very long lenses but there arerather too many gotchas).

LENS Pro - Image in VF is stabilised, IS tailored to lens focallength Con - more expensive..

Personally I think in lens is better but that IS/VR is a luxury and Iwould prefer older quality glass over newer IS/VR lenses. IS/VRcannot stop action. High ISO can. So a low noise high ISO cameralargely eliminates the need for IS/VR except with long lenses (say150mm plus) where the stabilised VF view is a definite advantage..

I am not anti IS/VR but much like CCD shake clean systems it isanother feature that is often overated. I would go for IQ firstsecond and third and large system and range of equipment fourth fifthand sixth, then VR. Live View would come about 50th on my list. Inshort it is vastly overated and I would resent paying extra for a camthat had it!.

Chris,.

Your correct. I am not making a preference at this point. I simply believe that IS is more important then Live View in a decision making. Personnally I perfer it in the camera for the reasons you stated. There was in interesting video on YouTube with a test of in body vs In lens. Since the 4/3 is the only camera that I know of that has a lens with IS (Leica) and cameras with inbody IS.

Obviously this would only apply to that specific lens but it was interesting. They also dispelled the thought that having both would be twice as good. With both turned on they fought each other and the shots are totally useless..

Here is the link if you are interested..

Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPdy52mR6Io.

I also perfer to have the ability to go to high ISO and stop action however being able to go with lower shutter speeds and pan using IS is really nice sometimes. if your at races..

MaddogOlympus E-510 and a bunch of stuff to hang on it...

Comment #12

I was reading an article in a newspaper this morning (Melbourne Age 'Green Guide') about how a beginner with his first SLR (Pentax K100) was frustrated that his (Auto mode) land/sky shots came out either washed out in the sky or too dark in the foreground..

The article was about informing beginners about letting go of Auto mode and instructing on how to override these problems. The author of the article talked about using exposure compensation or exposure bracketing and then reviewing the shots. Of course if you don't have a DSLR with live-view then you are stuck with having to shoot then review unless, of course, you are experienced and you know how much compenation is required to get the shot..

The point I am trying to make is that live-view gives the unexperienced a means of seeing what the exposure will be before the shot is taken and it also helps to teach the novice about light levels and how it relates to exposure compensation etc..

Of course, if the novice is used to looking through an optical viewfinder or cannot see the LCD due to bright ambient light then this can be a challenge..

I have come through the ranks of the bridgecam where the EVF gave a good indication of image exposure and it is for this and the reasons above that I would not have a DSLR without live-view..

Oh, and the author of the article made an inaccurate statement in relation to dynamic range, HE SAYS: "Sensors have double the Dynamic range of film but only half that of the eye" - I would like to see his instructions on taking a decent exposure with a film camera if that was the case..

Cheers..

Comment #13

Unfortunately, what you see in live view may not be the exposure at all. The lens is not stopped down and the jpeg hasn't been processed. It's just a representation of what the composed image may look like...

Comment #14

Surely preview mode would reflect what you will see in the image - with the lens stopped down? And wouldn't the histogram reflect the stopped down exposure as well? The Olympus E-510 does it this way (except in low light boost mode) not sure about others..

Cheers..

Comment #15

Rocklobster wrote:.

Surely preview mode would reflect what you will see in the image -with the lens stopped down?.

Probably not. What do you think the DOF preview button is for? Anyhow, judging DOF on the lcd is useless, DOF is a function of magnification..

And wouldn't the histogram reflect thestopped down exposure as well? The Olympus E-510 does it this way(except in low light boost mode) not sure about others..

I think simulate is the better word. Also keep in mind exposure is NOT a function of fstop..

Cheers..

Comment #16

Of course it is helpful to the inexperienced, and even the 'experienced' can get something out of it if they regard it like a kind of pictorial histogram. You can see where the exposure is 'going' in a similar way to the old-fashioned match-needle in film SLRs before fairground LEDs came on the scene..

It is extremely helpful as a compositional aid too and many of the 'experienced' would do well to think differently for a while and take more shots from viewpoints other than eye level. It's a great help with portraiture too - a mini version of a TLR if the LCD flips out.John.Please visit me at:http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/backtothebridgehttp://www.pbase.com/johnfr/digital_dartmoor..

Comment #17

If you want a flip-twist LCD live view, get a zigview...

Comment #18

Zigview?.... Well, yes, great for remote capture and as an electronic angle viewfinder aid; but doesn't it only show what's in the viewfinder without any of the live digital processing fx? If so, doesn't it then miss most of the benefits offered by live view?.

John.Please visit me at:http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/backtothebridgehttp://www.pbase.com/johnfr/digital_dartmoor..

Comment #19

Yes, judging DOF or focus accuracy with live view or EVF is next to useless but an OVF gives no indication of exposure accuracy. If you are happy to leave it to the camera to correctly set the exposure then fine but, in tricky lighting situations you need more..

Cheers..

Comment #20

Click Here to View All...

Sponsored Amazon Deals:

1. Get big savings on Amazon warehouse deals.
2. Save up to 70% on Amazon Products.


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

Categories: Home | Diet & Weight Management | Vitamins & Supplements | Herbs & Cleansing |

Sexual Health | Medifast Support | Nutrisystem Support | Medifast Questions |

Web Hosting | Web Hosts | Website Hosting | Hosting |

Web Hosting | GoDaddy | Digital Cameras | Best WebHosts |

Web Hosting FAQ | Web Hosts FAQ | Hosting FAQ | Hosting Group |

Hosting Questions | Camera Tips | Best Cameras To Buy | Best Cameras This Year |

Camera Q-A | Digital Cameras Q-A | Camera Forum | Nov 2010 - Cameras |

Oct 2010 - Cameras | Oct 2010 - DSLRs | Oct 2010 - Camera Tips | Sep 2010 - Cameras |

Sep 2010 - DSLRS | Sep 2010 - Camera Tips | Aug 2010 - Cameras | Aug 2010 - DSLR Tips |

Aug 2010 - Camera Tips | July 2010 - Cameras | July 2010 - Nikon Cameras | July 2010 - Canon Cameras |

July 2010 - Pentax Cameras | Medifast Recipes | Medifast Recipes Tips | Medifast Recipes Strategies |

Medifast Recipes Experiences | Medifast Recipes Group | Medifast Recipes Forum | Medifast Support Strategies |

Medifast Support Experiences |

 

(C) Copyright 2010 All rights reserved.