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Hi,.

I was recently a victim of an appraisal scam , as you can see in the following thread. http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and...appraisal.html.

In a joke-email I sent the scammer, I told him that I will sell the name to him for 1$ ans split the escrow fees.

He replied that what I said is binding according to his lawyer and internatina laws and I am now obliged to sell it to him for 1$. I find his remarks stupid, as I made an offer to a person which does not actually exist, he used fake name and company.

Anyway, he has sent me 6 emails since annoying me with this matter, that he will sue me and get the domain if I don give it to him. I am pretty much sure that he has no case but I would like to hear a legal expert's opinion on this.

Is what I said about giving the name for 1$ binding? Is there a law that forces me to give out the name? And more importantly, if yes, does it matter that the person to whom I supposedly made an offer was not using his real identity?.

Please give me an answer because he is really annoying. I reported him to FBI for the scam, told him, and he still wont give up...

Comments (42)

We recently had a long thread debate over a similar problem where a 'joke' was made and it became apparent that joking is a bad idea. However as you stated the person doesn't exist. Maybe you should simply agree to sell and continue asking for proof and such. It might be time that you add whois guard. Maybe you can say you sold it already for $1 to someone else. At this point it seems they are harrassing you but imho you are asking for trouble when emailing back these scammers.

Good luck..interesting story. Can you post any emails?..

Comment #1

Tell him is was only a five-minute special, and he missed out...

Comment #2

Replying to spam is a mistake, it's a sure way to get even more spam and harassment..

One thing you could do is check the IP the mail was sent from (in the mail headers) and report this to their ISP. If they use a domain name report to their registrar too...

Comment #3

Thats one solution, but how can I stop him from claiming my domain?..

Comment #4

If I were you, I would just ignore his emails.

There is no case against you. That said, I dont suggest to play with scammers at any level.

Gamehouse..

Comment #5

What bullshit. Ask him for his attourneys name and credentials and your attourney will contact him. Also say you made the same offer to someone else and they just took it...so the name was sold BEFORE he could respond....just place the name in whois guard or change the owner name and email to something else that's yours. You can wiggle out of this pretty easy...hey start discussing with him other really good deals you have...

Comment #6

I replied to this in the other forum and yes, this was talked aobut before where a lawyer discussed the legals of contracts. Yes, you entered into a contract. There is no getting around that. Say anything you want, but the legal side is agaist you.

As far as some of the other advise given here, remember, you haven't committed fraud yet (you would be if you listened to some of these suggestions and could be subject to punitive damages). You put yourself in a bad position and if they pursue action, they have a good start on you. Thier motives will mean nothing and thier hidden identity will mean nothing, they are a nonfactor. You initiated the offer, not them. You tried to get cutesy and failed.

Now, as far as a resolution, depending on the name (I thoutht you said it was about a $150.00 domain), if you get ignoring them, they just might go away. If it is a good domain, they could come after you, get a good lawyer. (selling the domain after this contract means you sold sometihng you no longer have possession of, therefore, you committed fraud with the second person you sold it to).

First rule of business... no joking.... I hope lesson learned here...

Comment #7

Ok I understand that it is serious and I know that I made a serious mistake. You know I wasnt serious, every rational person understands that. You wouldnt want the scammers to win this case would you?.

So please if someone knows a way for me to get out of this situation, please let me know. Even if it involves me agreeing to the sale but setting irrational transaction conditions which he will not be able to follow, like some members have sugegsted..

Can anyone give expert advice on how to keep my domain?.

Thank you..

Comment #8

Sigh, and to think in that thread I said this shouldn't be taken for granted...

Comment #9

Lol, I can't believe someone would take this serious. block his email and call it a night...

He would not even be able to prove that it was you that replied to his email...

Comment #10

My ISP has logs from email sent, so it can be proven unfortunately.....

Comment #11

How about telling him you will only accept payment in person in cash? :-).

Again I don't think DNQ is looking at this from a realistic standpoint. A LOT of bullcrap goes on in this world whether it's legal or gray area. If the president can break the law with an excuse so can you. No one is above the law but at the same time...the law is a moving object and can be avoided. :-).

I really don't see why he can't say he already sold the domain BEFORE the person responded accepting the $1 offer. If you said this what kind of response could they make? They can't sue you for damages on something they never owned. I would get the domain under whois guard asap and say it was already sold.

I wouldn't worry about them if I was you...

Comment #12

Hello,.

I studied law for three years, from what I understand you had a gentlemen's agreement, gentlemen's agreement are not legaly binding. Gentlemen's agreement are based on honor, not laws..

So there is not much to go for a lawyer..

Take the case in reverse, myself had a gentlemen's agreement in three different cases recently where people were going to buy domain names from me, one was US$50, the second one was $200, the third one was US$500..

None off the deal went ahead, though the buyers said they will buy, although we had an agreement in the three cases, none have put the money. I cannot force them to buy, and they cannot force me to sell, and that is how it goes. If they was any money transaction it would have been different cases, but they was no money transaction..

The way I see it, is you are just being intimidated, because you do not know your rights. Even if you had sign a sale contract it all depends of the conditions, not all sale contracts are legally binding, it all depends of the conditions set before..

If all gentlemen's agreement were legally binding, then the court will be full 24/7 for the next 30 000 years, for sure ebay would be out of business..

I have to agree with one of the earlier post, no joking in business, but on this one, I say there is nothing even the most skilled lawyer can do against you..

You can change your mind, and no one can force you in selling anything, even if you told them you were selling it for 1 cents, so long there is no signature and contract..

I am under the impression you do not even know this guy's name, so I would say how can there is something binding between you and, what is name again...

Cal..

Comment #13

This guy spams everyone here at namepros with his purchase requests.Quit spamming everyone you turkey-I know he reads these posts...

Comment #14

I agree with that, I am coming to the conclusion that he cant do anything about it. Even if he does have the right to claim it for 1$, there are ways to make him pay more than he can aford to before he gets it...

Comment #15

Ah, the dillsuional reality we like to beleive in..... That's right, only believe what you want to beleive... Stay in your fantasy world.

Gentlemans agreement???? umm, this agreement was in writing, gentlemans agreement is over a handshake. This is clearly not the case here, email is considered valid writings. This has been support already (then again, many people tend to not listen to lawyers either).

If you read what I wrote before (which I doubt), depending on how bad the other person wants it will depend on how this turns out. If you just ignore him or if you say take you to court, then he has to make the next move. He would have to pay lawyers and waste his time (risk/reward factor). He will try to bully you until he acts or gives up. If he acts, then it will be your turn to act.

Labrocca, are you saying there is no contract here? Are you saying the person who accepted the offer intitiated by petrosc has no rights? Are you saying this is not actionable? I am interested in just yrs or no answers please.

The bottom line here is this is actionable, but is it worth it for the buyer. If you ride out the bullying, he may just give up (a reality).

Caloute - you assessment is wrong, an actual lawyer discussed this already in this forum along a similar subject. But as far as saying thee was no contract, you are wrong. As far sa saying you can't force someone to buy after a contract is made, you are wrong. As far as saying you can change your mind after you enter a contract, you are wrong (unless the contract gives you a way to canelt he transaction). As far as you saying that there is no signature so there is no contract, you are wrong. If you went to law school for 3 years, you needed a better school. As far as the offers you had, yes, you could have taken action against the buyers, but it wasn't worth the time so you just gave up, right?.

Yes, I live in reality, more people should too......

Comment #16

DNQuest, thank you for your remarks on the subject..

The thing is that I do not think that such a domain is worth the trouble for him.

I did not specify anything about the escrow, so if he will want to buy it, I will want him to pay for the escrow, I believe I have the right to do so. I will also want him to come down to czech republic to my attorney's office where the transaction will be held. Making a legal move against me means that he will reveal his identity too. Transferring the domain as well. If I will transfer the name to someone, at least I have to know who that person is. This is a person who's business relies on anonymity.

If he takes legal action against me, and comes to czech republic to take the domain, his anonymity days are over and he knows that well. Many people are looking to find him, he wouldnt want that to happen. Is all that trouble worth for this domain? It may have an end user value of $3000 but is it worth spending $x,xxx to get it + revealing his identity?.

DNQ you seem to critisize this matter alot but you do not try to give a suggestion for solution. If you know alot about these subjects, why dont you help the situation by suggesting an action, so that the scammer wont end up with the name in his hands. He has made enough money already with his scams. Ok I made a mistake. Instead of critisizing my action(which is not wrong, I did make a mistake), concider the fact that a scammer is practically trying to control the situation here. Why dont you try to suggest something to prevent him..

Comment #17

DNQ...I owned a retail store for 10 years...if I had 1 of an item during xmas time and someone called me on the phone asking the price and I said $100..then I hang up and he says he is on his way. Well someone heard the conversation and says...hey you got 1 left..I will take it.

Now the guy on the phone shows up. I am sold out. He can't sue me for jack sheet.

Obviously my tactic is a bit of bending luckily I am NOT a lawyer or sworn to uphold the letter of the law because he did NOT sell the item..however the would-be buyer doesn't know that and actually can't prove otherwise very easily.

I don't see the world as black and white as you do. I see a whole lot of grey. What is against the law this month is legal next month and vise versa. People tend to bend the law all the time and when it goes to court it either becomes law or becomes illegal. imho he has ways out of this..I am trying to help the OP which is his request...do you honestly feel he should now sell the domain for $1 to this guy? Law is about justice...selling a domain to a scammer for $1 is bullshit.

I am trying to get into your head about this.

I think you understand fully a contract takes BOTH parties to agree.

1. buyer shows interest.

2. seller creates price.

3. buyer accepts price.

Now that is a contract.

1. buyer shows interest.

2. seller offers price.

3. seller sold to another party.

4. buyer accepts price.

Sorry but in that case step 3 means that seller CAN'T form a contract with seller since he no longer has possession of item. I am sure this would fly in court and I would hope JBH might step in with his godly opinion.

I just hope you see this logic since it's really a part of every day transactions..these forums for instance in the buy sell trade. If I post a domain for sale here as well as at DNF but I sell it at DNF for BIN and forget to update the post at NP can the person wanting the domain at NP sue me???.

NOPE...

Comment #18

This is fun... where should start???.

Labrocca... I see you failed to answer direct questions, no surprise there. As far as a contract is concerned, the seller made a valid offer, the buyer accepted, it is a contract at that point of acceptance. The buyer agreed to the sellers terms in full. As far as your second example, the seller did not sell the domain to someone else (unless you want the seller to lie (IE-commit fraud)). So your second example, while is in fact true, it is not applicaple because it did not occur.

Petro is looking for a black or white response which I address as such. He wants some magical undo mechanision (backspace key?) to change what he has done. You are offering unethical/illegal solutions for his problem. That's fine, I just pointed out the downside of doing so (fraud, perjury (if under oath)). Also, the buyer can lie just as well as you, imagine if he told the court "we talked over a chat room about an idea for the domain, he agreed to transfer to me for $1 and we split the profits. The seller said he would send me an email with the offer.

I may be using my imagination here, but what if it actually happened. It's not like scammers have morals.

As far as your example, it is apples and oranges. But in retail, advertised prices are subject to corrections (as you must know), but if you tag the item in the store with the wrong price, then you are obligated to sell it at that price. This is an instance where the seller intitiated the offer and screwed up.

BTW- courts are not always about justice, many times it is about the BS that sticks or the money spent to outdo the other side.

BTW2- I do see what you are trying to say, you are saying to have the seller to lie (anything you present that is not the truth is a lie).

Petro, I did offer you advice, you are too up about this to realize it. The next move is up to the buyer. There is nothing you can do at this point to change what you have done. As far as I can see, you did not tell the buyer the domain was already sold or anything along those lines (and doing it now would not look good on you if the buyer took you to court). There is no magic potion. Like I said before, he just may give up if the domain isn't worth it, but he will try to push your buttons.

I would just sit back and see whats happenes next, chances are he will just give up. For a court action, he would need to reveal his identity and give information that he doesn't what to get out...

Comment #19

This is what I am counting on, but not only that. Even if reveiling his identity would not be a problem(even though this is the MAIN problem IMO), there is another issue here. That is the financial factor. The domain was appraised for low x,xxx. If he takes legal action, he will have to pay an attourney(not cheap). Then pay for air ticket to czech republic+accomodation etc which is not cheap either, and then pay the FULL escrow fees to my attourney.

Since the domain is worth as much, this not worth the fuss IMHO...

Comment #20

1. Yes he has a contract but contracts can be broken..

2. I don't think petro is looking for black and white..that's just you and how you see things..

3. Not all states force a store to sell an item priced wrong. It's easy enough for customers to change a tag on you and that's a serious problem so certain states (not sure of percentage) have laws for it..

4. Yeah I am actually saying the seller should lie. Sorry but people do lie. He doesn't have to lie in court or under oath...just to this guy to shut him up. I lie to my kids when I am having sex with the wife and they ask me what we were doing.

5. Your advice to ignore them is perfectly fine imho but in case the guy actually continues to harass him and get a lawyer I felt my advice might buy him more time. It would be damn hard for them to prove when he sold a domain even if he transferred the domain at a later date to someone. Yeah it would require a lie. I ain't a saint and I don't pretend anyone else is either.

Hey DNQ..it's been a fun thread but I think I said all I can on the matter and I wish OP luck...

Comment #21

Of course there is plenty he can do. Your zeal to argue that a contract was formed has you looking over the simple fact that many parts of this "deal" have not been determined and conditions can still be set. What escrow service will be used? Who gets to determine that service and if they can't agree on a service, does that void the deal? Does the buyer have to sign a contract before sale to relieve the seller of any legal liability associate with the domain from current or past usage? Under the laws of what jurisdiction was this contract formed? Was it in the Czech Republic where the seller initiated the offer to sell? Are you certain that using email to offer a domain for sale to a person that may or may not exist is legally binding in the Czech Republic? Is the buyer in this situation of legal age to be able to form a contract and for that matter is the seller of legal age to form an enforceable contract and again, in what jurisdiction?.

The point about being careful in "joking" when you are selling domains is quite valid and good advice but it is incorrect to say that in this case there is a binding contract with no legal way out. There may be a contract formed but it is loosely formed and in no way have the conditions of sale been determined. The further away you are from a signed document detailing the legal names of the parties, all conditions of the sale and under what jurisdiction, the harder it is for either party to enforce it...

Comment #22

Labrocca, Thanks.

The reason that I created this thread is because I do not know which way to look at this matter. This is why I needed advice from more experienced users, preferably legal experts. I don know which way to look at it, Black and White, Or Gray like you say. Gray is my personal favourite and rational thinking points to that direction to. The question is, does the law follow logic or is it black and white like DNQ sais. What you have said about how to handle this situation is IMO the best way to look at it for a start.

DNQ previously you said that what labrocca had proposed is unethical. Are you suggesting that the ethical thing to do is to hand over the domain to that scammer, just because I made a joke? Or as you say just sit and wait until he desides if he wants my name or not? I do not want to let him deside that, I am sure there is a way out of it, I do not believe that everything is hanging on a thin line and thats why I started this thread.

I am curious about one thing. I will give you one example of a realistic escrow transaction. I will make my point at the end of the example.

I am sure most of you have previous experience with online transactions such as escrow. What the companies which are handling the transaction do, is that they send you a form for the transfer, which is signed from both parties and then faxed or emailed scanned back to the company. If a simple email agreement would be binding, there would be no need for that. It would be enough, for both buyer and seller to send a small email stating that they agree to price and terms. So can you explain to me why the SIgning part is necessary in such transactions if a simple email would do?..

Comment #23

Fundraiser, please read my posts before you put words in my mouth. I never said there is no legal way out of it and my "zeal" is to give it straight without the BS to make anyone feel fuzzy and warm (if you read closely, I am trying to save petro from making more mistakes such as fraud or perjury). There are valid points on whether it is enforcable or whether it is valid (that is not the discussion, petro wants to know what do to next), but like I said, there is nothing to do now but wait because that cannot be determined unless it goes to court. Se won't know either of them until the buyer decides on what action to take (to drop it or persue it).

As far as contracts, you do not need all that to form a contract, all you need is offer, consideration and acceptance. All of which are present. It is my hope that anyone reading this will understand more about contracts. All the other fancy stuff needs to be present on the offer and it is all fluff for a sake of argueing. As I said, I am commenting on the actual facts. A contract was formed, end of story...

Comment #24

Dear Dnquest,.

I went to the finest private institute there was in the region (But thank you for the cheap shot)..

There is no sale contract clearly defining this sale, and since the buyer seems to misrepresent his identity according to Petrosc, you cannot have a contract with someone you do not have a valid name for. Sorry to disapoint you, each case is not the same. Clearly to me since the other party seems to be harrasing Petrosc he might very well be a scammer on a second attempt, even if there was a contract it will be void by now. Would Petrosc had received the money, it would have been another case altogether..

Clearly there is nothing enforceable, certainly for $0.99 no one is going to bother..

They had a written gentlemen's agreement, not a defined signed sale contract with provisions and clauses, like I said just the fact that the buyer is unknow, you cannot have something valid if no real name has been provided, this is just thin air.

Cal.

Dear Petrosc,.

Just do nothing..

There is not such thing as:.

Edward Kramer Ph.D..

President.

BN Engineering.

Certainly not with a hotmail style of email.

If this guy was for real you could have seen a lot more detail than just a fake company name, for a start with an address and country..

To me you are dealing with a scammer that thought he could kill 2 birds, with a single shot.

Cal.

Petrosc, since you wanted to use escrow, I can serve as the "ecrowee", my fee is $5000, and I guess you wanted the seller to pay for escrow, so here we go, if you want to use my service you are welcome...lol.

Cal..

Comment #25

DNQuest,.

I am addressing your words as I read them, perhaps your meaning while writing them was something differrent altogether:.

Yes, you entered into a contract. There is no getting around that. Say anything you want, but the legal side is agaist you..

If you just ignore him or if you say take you to court, then he has to make the next move. He would have to pay lawyers and waste his time (risk/reward factor). He will try to bully you until he acts or gives up. If he acts, then it will be your turn to act..

"The bottom line here is this is actionable, but is it worth it for the buyer..

Petro is looking for a black or white response which I address as such. He wants some magical undo mechanision (backspace key?) to change what he has done..

Petro, I did offer you advice, you are too up about this to realize it. The next move is up to the buyer. There is nothing you can do at this point to change what you have done..

My point is simply that it does not have to be actionable as the seller still has options to apply terms. He can indeed change what has been done. Your own words, as I interpreted them, seem to indicate your position is that he do nothing because there is nothing that can be done but wait for the buyer to take action if the buyer chooses to.

I agree with you that likely nothing will happen because it won't be worth it to the buyer but, I simply point out that he does not have to wait for someone to take action as was suggested is his only option.

I also agree with you on many points about contracts and while I am not a lawyer, I know very directly all I ever want to know about contract law, jurisdiction and the cost of waiting for someone to take action you never believe they will. Clearly you are trying to not have him take illegal action that could make his position worse but there are also legal things that could place him in a more advantageous position rather than just accepting that the law is against him now.

The real answer to these types of posts is simple - if you put yourself in a situation that requires legal advice, seek the paid counsel of a qualified attorney and take the responses here as thought-provoking information from well-meaning forum members...

Comment #26

This well known "buyer" has left behind a legacy of broken "gentleman's contracts" which he has himself walked away on.You get an appraisal and then he is unavailable to negotiate as he agrees to do. They can be found all over the place. All of us have heard from this scammer.If he wants to pursue this legally he must reveal himself and then he faces the same legal action that he threatens, from the many that he has broken the agreement with..

Quite simply put he put -he won't..

Your offer to sell can be shown to be no more bogus than his many offers to buy..

The email he sends out is not an original letter just a form letter where the individuals name and the name of the engineering firm are changed from time to time.They do not represent any form of reality or fact.Courts are well aware of these schemes and I'm not sure they would be impressed with his letter or his bully tactics...

Comment #27

Have to agree with sdtrader..

This scammer misrepresented himself, so there is nothing valid, agreement his void..

Bottom line...

Comment #28

It is reasons like this that I keep responding..... to set the record straight. You are wrong with this statement....

As far as applying terms (which I agree there should have been some), they need to be present in the offer or during negotiations. At no point did the seller imply there are terms to be added. As far as being actionable, I mean in terms as the buyer enforcing the contract (IE-the action of going to court). The buyer has every right to take the seller to court, do I think he will? I don't think so. Additionally, as far as imposing terms afterwards and making it difficult for the buyer, it is a $1.00 sale in a very common practice of domain selling. Credibility would be an issue and someone playing games would not make a judge happy (just being real).

Is this far rectched, yes it is and I have maintained that, but always expect the worse...

Comment #29

To begin with, any judge would throw this out because the deal is unreasonable. Second, individuals are often given a lot of leeway when it comes to changing their mind on deals. This combined with the fact that money has not changed hands would likely mean any contract would not be binding..

The ridiculousness of the offer also lends credence to the claim that it was a joke. You can't watch a SNL commercial and then ring up demanding that they sell you their non-existant spoof product for $19.95. The fact that the offer was made after having been scammed by the other party is also a factor to be taken into consideration. This goes a long way to show that the offer was not serious. What judge will believe that someone is going to sell someone a name at a fraction of what they paid for it after having been scammed by them?.

The person who accepted the offer has few, if any rights.

Anything is actionable, even if that anything doesn't in fact exist. But any action would be doomed to failure...

Comment #30

I am a lawyer. This is ridiculous.

Don't lose any sleep over this one. Let him sue you...

Comment #31

Hello,.

Like I said from the beginning, this is thin air, there is not much to go on..

If you sell to Mr.X and Mr.X turns out to be Mr.Y, then he misrepresented himself, agreement is void.

But you have to ask yourself the motivation of some people who have been consistently trying to protect and side with the scammer.

Cal..

Comment #32

Maybe there should be a sticky on the "basis of contract law" for I just dont know why people choose to comment on something for which they dont havent the foggiest of what they speak. And why is it these threads always contain multiple unconnected argument?.

Anyway, In this instance however, As Phil has repeatedly said, a contract WAS formed according to the details given by the OP. Offer, acceptance and consideration with no (to be negotiated) variables/additions and/or amendments to said contract.

I offer you XYZ for $1, I accept.. End.

Now, the OP does have a contract - but to a one Mr. Edward Kramer Ph.D. And should Mr Kramer want to file an action, then it is his right. The OP will not have a contract with anyone else.

Now, whether that contract is enforecable or not will depend upon Mr kramers willingness to file his action. And whether or not, of course, he actually exists.

But as other threads have mentioned (and covering the basis of legal process in general), courts do not take kindly to "defences to enforceable contracts" as "my offer was a joke"..

Anyway on a lighter note, ive found a link to a contract law story that made me smile last month http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...988954,00.html..

Comment #33

Http://www.timesonline.co.uk/articl...1988954,00.html.

By international law a contract to kill is not legaly binding..

Only in the UK and the USA you can see stuff like that..

Now people sue you because you forgot to put the toilet seat down, doctors leave people die on an accident scene, coz they are too afraid of being sued, tell me where this is going. Now they have the Suephobia, as one of my friends was saying, there they are "Sue Crazy". Talk about freedom...

Cal.

Be sure to check this one out: http://www.gov.ns.ca/Just/regulations/regs/cpintrnt.htm.

Regarding current issue..

Comment #34

First of all, thank you all fo taking part in this thread, this conversation has been very helful to me as to understanding the situation.

I would like to comment on what Badger had to say before. No additions are to be made to my offer to scammer. I thought I was clear on that subject, already said it twice in this thread.

The condidions that are going to be set are such conditions that must be set, but the buyer simply can't and doesnt have the right to set. Such are for example: Who pays the escrow fees(since I did not say that we will split or anything). Of course he will pay the fees, why should I pay any escrow. Another thing is where the transaction will take place. I will decide that and no force can take that away from me.

These are the only conditions that must and will be defined by me. If he takes legal action, I will be waiting for him in my lawyer's office in Czech republic. I do have my atourney standing by, to start reviewing the case if he scammer tries to take legal action against me. Are you serious? A judge is not a machine judging yes/no. We would have computers to do his job if he were. He will have the facts in front of him.

Come on..

On the other side of the courtroom, will be a scammer sitting, claiming the case. And what you are suggesting, is that the judge will take the scammer kindly, but not me, because I defend myself by saying that my offer was a joke?.

You know that we are dealing with a known scammer here, and yet you are Suggesting that the judge will not take me kindly. What is he going to think? He will think: "This guy made a joke offer. I hate people who are ignorant and dont take business seriously. Lets give the name to the poor scammer, after all, he did go through all that trouble to scam that ignorant guy, lets reward his effords". Are you listening to yourself? If there is someone not to be taken kindly/seriously in court, it is a scammer claiming a honest person's property, after trying to scam him first. Ok lets suppose the scammer has contract with me(which he may have, I understand that). When do I find out with who I have contract with?.

I made an offer to someone who does not exist. And if anthing, I can say that I wanted to sell the name to Dr. Edward Kramer, phd president of BN engineering, and not to anyone else. The person claiming my domain is not the same person I made the offer to. Why can he lie about his identity and still get away with it, together with my domain. Is this really serious? Is there a judge in the world that will study a case where someone changed his identity to scam a person, and still be in favour of the scammer? I am finding it hard and too rediculous to believe.

Dont get me wrong here but I get the impression that you are -in a way- defending a scammer who ripped many NP members off in the past, rather than helping me solve this case. Telling me to sit and wait until the scammer decides if he wants or not my domain name is not helping. On the contrary, your suggestion is helping the scamer keep the upper hand in this case.

As a last thing, I would like to say that I will not be suprised if the scammer is reading, or even worse, trying to activly manipulate the situation in this thread...

Comment #35

You can be sure he is.

Even if you do have legal obligations they are with one:.

Edward Kramer Ph.D..

President.

BN Engineering.

You may want to keep that in mind as only this particular president of this particular engineering firm at this particular bonbon.net address would have.

Any right to make claim.All the other (publicized) presidents of other engineering firms using different bonbon.net email adresses using the same.

Email offer(age old scam letter) have no claim...

Comment #36

This thread is just all over the place.

We had an extended "joke" thread a while back, and I'm not going to regurgitate all that. Whether an offer is a "joke" is an objective question - it doesn't matter what YOU thought or what HE thought. (okay, well, it matters that YOU thought you were joking, and HE thought you weren't - but the question is ultimately resolved on whether it objectively appeared to be a joke).

1. The original poster should just drop it. If the guy was scamming you in the first place, then it's not as if he's going to pop out of the woods and identify himself in order to enforce what he is calling a "contract". If you want to play with scammers, then head over to 419eater.com.

2. Yes, you certainly can, and I am certain that you have probably entered into and performed contracts with such people. We had quite a snowstorm this weekend, and in my mother's neighborhood, an enterprising kid showed up at her door and offered to shovel her driveway for five bucks. She said "yes" and he set to shoveling. Are you going to sit there and say that, after he had shoveled the drive, that she would be within her rights to say, "oh, but you didn't tell me your name, so shove off." Heck no...

Comment #37

1. You offered to sell your domain for "$0,99." This is not a legal form of expression of a monetary valuei.e. $0,99 means nothing. Being as it is a typographic error, BOTH parties would have to agree to changes/modifications of the "contract.".

2. You did not specify a currency i.e 99 what?..

3. You did not specify a timeframei.e. you could sell the domain in 30 days or 30 years....you ask him "when would you like to to start the process," but you don't have to agree with his timeframe.......

4. Relax. Completely ignore this scammer and he will move on to someone else.......

WT..

Comment #38

My sweetie practiced law for fifteen years and when I told him about this thread he very nearly shot beer out his nose.

He asked me a few questions:.

1) Where was the contract formed?.

2) What is the governing law?.

3) What is the escrow agreement clearly contemplated in what purports to be an offer and acceptence? What are it's terms and conditions?.

4) What currency was the sale negotiated in?.

5) Where is the address for delivery of the domain name?.

6) Has any consideration actually been paid? (Apparently that's the reason why contracts often call for the payment of a nominal sum up front.).

7) What is the completion date for the alledged contract?.

8) Is the purchaser hiding his identity for commercial reasons or is there an intention to decieve?.

And so on.

One thing he did point out is that this thread in itself is evidence and, he said, were it him he would not be discussing the matter a) at all, b) in anything but a hypothetical manner.

He then went back to his beer with an amused look on his face.

Smug bugger...

Comment #39

Hello,.

When I say you cannot have a contract with someone you do not have a valid name for, I was meaning the contrat was with that Kramer guy, now if it turns out his name is Dramer, then it is =0, sorry it was badly formulated.

All this is thin air, and to all the so called lawyers, you have been generalizing this case as if it was guenuine, there were some important elements to it though that makes it different. You have to see the context on how the whole story happened.

Petrosc said he was selling his domain name for $0.99, did he said which one?.

If the scammer read this thread then I invite him to seat on a rhinoceros head.

It has always been amazing to me that we could give rights to this kind of people anyway...

And Petrosc, no offence may be the domain name is great, but if it is not business.com or bank.com who is going to bother to put upfront money to try and get the name.

Clearly to me, if this guy was genuine his lawyer would have called you a long time ago, the reason he kept intimidating you, is because he has no shot and was hoping you would crack..

Just let it go.

End of the threat for me I will not be wasting my time on it anymore, I suggest you do the same, that is the solution, too many people are taking the side of the scum of the earth on this thread and it does stink.

Dnquest as much as I hate to admit it, I studied laws a long time ago (15 years ago), after giving a good brush at my courses, I was wrong on some of the stuff I said, I apologize to you.

Please note that there are proper domain name sale contract template on the net, I suggest you use them.

Again Petrosc do not do this kind of joke again, sounds like saying you have a bomb when you are in an airport.

Cal..

Comment #40

Was the name he never mentioned this one - AdultPictorials.com - as detailed in the original thread?.

Or was it simply because there was no mention of what colour trousers each party was wearing during the negotiation process which then ensured a non-formation of contract?.

Im lost here, someone explain please.....

Comment #41

Not even sure what he was offering...lol, might have been any domain really, that he owns...thin air...

Cal (Hum I said was not going to waste my time on this one...damn..someone sue me, I broke my word)..

Comment #42


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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