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GoDaddy reviews : Great idea to pay for GoDaddy?? I recently Registered "Rapid Refund Taxes".com~Quite Generic I believe.

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We recently Registered "Rapid Refund Taxes".com~Quite Generic?.

Well we just got an email from a tax firm stating that they own a similar trademark and I'm cybersquatting them and to turn the name over immediately.

Here's what we believe and sent back via email.....

Rapid refund is an Generic term for filing taxes. It is the same as you saying you have a trademark on Fast Refunds, Quick Refunds or Speedy Refunds..You can not or even attempt to control or monopolize a generic term such as rapid, fast or speedy followed by any generic term such as cars, taxes, delivery, cleaning..

You may get a trademark on the word "Rapid" or any other generic name but this does not mean you can run a monopoly on the internet and threaten everyone using a generic word such as Rapid, Fast or Speedy folowed by another generic term such as Refund, Refunds, Refunded, tax, taxed, taxes,.

You may however trademark and actually control a brand name such as YourCompanyREFUND YourCompanyRefunds and so on..

We do not and will never CyberSquat as you suggest and take all and every such threat, charge and or accusation very seriously. We do not and will never transfer /img/avatar2.jpgship of our domain names without an agreed upon sale price between "us the /img/avatar2.jpg" and an interested purchaser.

Dave Crutcher..

Comments (53)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you look up Rapid Refund in the trademark database, it is owned by H&R Block and is not just a generic term.

Trademarks can be any generic term, but it has a specific scope. For instance, Apple can trademark their name for use in computers, but not other industries. As a matter of fact, the Beatles sued Apple for use of the name as part of the iTunes deal, since it dealt with music which was specific to their trademark (Apple records)...

Comment #1

Rapid Refund is TM by HR Block and it belongs to them. But if this is a small tax firm and not HR Block sending this then they are blowing smoke in my opinion. But if it is HR Block then this name is nothing but trouble...

Comment #2

"Rapid Refund" is a quite well known service offered by H&R Block. What this service amounts to is essentially a loan against your prospective tax refund, and they make more money off of this sucker than they do in preparing tax returns.

It is not "generic" since, as you demonstrate, other phrases could suffice to describe a prompt tax refund.

It's really not descriptive either, since they do not really purport to obtain your tax refund any more rapidly than the government will process your return - it is really a loan service which, while rapid, is not really a refund. In that sense, it might be considered deceptively misdescriptive, but their federal registration is prima facie evidence of the ownership and distinctiveness of the mark...

Comment #3

That's fine, they can trademark anything they want...I'm standing firm that it is just as generic as Fast Refunds, speedy refunds or secure refunds which may be trademarks just as well.. If I make most of my money from rapid submissions, rapid articles, rapid returns, rapid recipes or anything else that is important to have done in a rapid fashion~I can't trademark any of those and expect for no one else to advertise it again..

If your expecting a refund, Most people want their tax refund back in a rapid fashion, not slowly or mid-paced. Almost every tax service is offering rapid tax returns these days..I call trademarking a commonly used term and trying to control it on the internet a monopoly. I respect everyones opinion but am a little surprised you back them on this one just because they bought the trademark.

He told me the trademark was Rapid Refund any way, not rapid refund taxes and even if it were to me it's still generic since rapid just means fast.

I have DetoxRapidly, BlogRapidly, ProfitRapidly, RapidFTP and RapidInsuranceAgency all in .com as well.....Guess what! I could care less if their trademarks because they are commonly used generic terms.

What's next a trademark on purple grapes? Just took a look at every RapidTaxRefund .com .net .org .us and none appear to be H&RBlock......Probably a hoax then....

Comment #4

They have very specific rules and every now and then a bad tm DOES show up...however this is their service/trade mark, and you just might be SOL if they UDRP or sue...

Just fyi, next time you should get advice before you send a reply... anything you say can and will be used against you..

Comment #5

I don't know if anyone's really "backing" them...but people are trying to say that this domain name is nothing but trouble. I say, "As long as you can afford to defend it in court or UDRP, go for it. Just be prepared to do that though, because you probably will HAVE to."..

Comment #6

No one is backing anyone in this. We are just trying to give you a head's up about registering trademarks, so you'll avoid a lot of legal hassles in the future. We certainly don't want to see any domainer get sued or lose domains. If you want to argue that in front of a court, and have the resources to do so, then all the power to you. It's just that precedent has not been on your side...

Comment #7

Thanks for everyones advice....It's amazing to me that a term with RapidRefund in it is considered trouble because someone trademarked it.

I've always thought Rapid refund was just something you did when you wanted your taxes back quicker than the standard processing period,Not a special trademarked variation of illegal to use words.

I wasn't aware there was another term besides the obvious ones similar to the couple I've mentioned which are fast and speedy. If Rapid refund is protected then it could be argued that no one can use fast or speedy refund together because it would be confused with rapid refund.

I'll let you know what happens....and yes I'll travel to where ever needed to argue my point...

Comment #8

Not sure if it makes a difference but they dont have the 3 words you registered TM'd then how can they bitch? Because the first 2 words are in there?.

These big companies anymore have just about every word and phrase you can think of TM'd. Before you know it we wont be able to register anything...

Comment #9

When dealing with the government, nothing is ever rapid.

As jberryhill pointed out, the service they are offering is actually a loan service, so in that regard, the term is not generic. No one would ever hear the term "Rapid Refund" and instinctively think of loans... Well, aside from the refund loan that H&R Block offers under the same term... You see how that works? They've established a solid brand for a service, using a term that is not generic for that particular service.

And since the government doesn't offer any sort of expedited tax processing service (that I'm aware of), the only context where someone could offer a rapid, fast, or speedy refund, would be if they were offering refund loans...

Though, honestly, there are other domains I think they'd be more apt to go after, such as RapidRefund.net, which is a competing service...

Either way, I personally don't think the domain is worth the hassle, but if you want to fight it, best of luck!..

Comment #10

1. Your right, I don't think of loans. I think of getting my refund back rapidly.

2. It's not about the government offering refunds rapidly. It's about the the hundreds or thoundsands of online and off line services offering the service without the help of HRBLOCK.

Did any of you that posted here honestly know that HRBLOCK had the term rapid refund trademarked? I'm no spring chicken and had no idea..It's ridiculous to me, but what do I know? It is worth it to me...

Comment #11

First thing I think of when I hear 'rapid refund' is H&R's tax service. You hear it ad nauseum every tax season...

Comment #12

I've seen a few H&R Blocks.. They all have giant Rapid Refund signs in the window. They have commercials touting their Rapid Refund service... Conversely, I don't think I've ever seen or heard another tax refund business using the term in their advertising in the course of my day-to-day life. Though, admittedly, I don't use these services.

But generally speaking, when I hear a term being advertised as a service or brand, and I know the company is spending millions in advertising... I automatically just assume it's TMed, which 99% of the time is the case.

Anyway. if it is worth it to you, then by all means, exercise your rights..

Comment #13

I just found out RapidRefund.name and RapidRefunds.name are developed and are not owned by HR either.......That doesn't make it right but from .com to .name there's no sign of HR so I assume it was a fraudster.

Thanks All...

Comment #14

Don't assume, but don't give them any ammo either. If it really is HR Block, you may be able to use the fact that other competing services are established on other very similar domains... that *might* give you an advantage. Thing is, if they don't try to protect the tm, they will lose it. So it's better for them to at least try...

Comment #15

Either those 2 have some kind of arrangement with H&R, or H&R doesn't know.

About them...yet. If it's the latter, it's probably an "oversight", which happens.

Every other day and could be rectified anytime.

Of course, others seemingly getting away with it doesn't mean you will too.

Thing is, any word can become a trademark, depending on a variety of things..

If it's especially registered at the relevant trademark database, USPTO in this.

Case, one's thinking it's generic means practically little to nothing...

Comment #16

Like I said up there, everything with rapidtaxrefund from .com to .name appears to have no association with HRB...

Oh yeah, they also have TAX Cut trademarked which is just as ridiculous...

Comment #17

Neither is ridiculous actually... they are the names of their services and products. It would NOT be fair for others to be able to use their product/service names for the same products without repercussions. TM's and patents are there to protect peoples names and works from copy and benefit from their work...

Comment #18

Hi all,.

A couple of questions:.

1) Can RapidRefundTaxes be used as a site which, let's say, has a set of url links to government sites that describe how to expedite tax refunds over the Internet, and therefore not be infringing on a loan service - or is it too late for this?.

2) Can Apple be used as a Trademark in the food industry - e.g. to describe a particular type of genetically advantaged apple (just as an example)?.

Thanks for the responses?.

Rich..

Comment #19

I would read the above, and take JB's advice, He gave it to you free. Make good use of it, Imo..

Comment #20

I deal in domain names but I don't trademark the name "Domain Names"......it's about as general as tax cuts...

Comment #21

So you are saying there are no TMs wth "Domains" in it??.

I went to reply yesterday, but decided not to because it would have been deemed real harsh. The facts are, Rapid Refund is a registered mark, and you had a lawyer tell you it is a registered mark. Adding the taxes is directly in H&R field. They have been using that for 20+ years. Yeah it sounds good becuase of all the money they dumped into promoting their service.

But honestly, you have ever heard someone say, "I want my refund rapidly"? And actually, you should have registered "refund rapidly taxes" according to your logic.

In any case, you have been given some good free advise, what you do with it is up to you.

I look forward to your response rapidly...

Rich,.

A- Not really, they have a registered mark for Rapid Refund in the field of taxes, so it has not been deemed descriptive.

B- Yes, in the descriptive sense. But that hasve been talked about to death around here (in reference to Apple)...

Comment #22

Except, as noted a couple of times so far there is no such thing. There is no way to "expedite" your tax refund. You get it when the government processes your tax return. You can designate an electronic payment agent, or you can participate in a loan program.

And, no, I didn't look up anything in the trademark database. As also noted above H&R Block has done saturation advertising for years relating to this service which, again, is a loan service. Other tax services manage to offer tax refund loans (which, IMHO, are typically pretty sleazy usurious loans) without using the term "rapid refund".

There are lots of terms which, even though suggestive of the goods or services, have become well known marks through longstanding use and promotion.

Handi-Wipes - Are they handy? Are they wipes? Yes. But they've been around for decades, and everyone knows what they are.

American Airlines - Are they in America? Do they run an airline? You bet.

It's not always as simple as "does someone have a trademark" since things like CHEER detergent involve a word that is commonly used for other things. IMHO - and that's just my IMHO, so take it for what it's worth - this situation is not that.

The observation that "others are doing it" is absolutely worthless in this context. I see a lot of c&d traffic, and I can assure you that H&R Block has been on a c&d binge for several months, and has sent out hundreds, if not thousands, of letters to domain registrants.

And, having seen a lot of these letters, I might as well make an observation about their TaxCut brand tax preparation software. A "tax cut", in it's ordinary meaning, is not something you do, but is something the government does. In association with tax preparation software, "TAXCUT" is similarly not descriptive. If a "tax cut" formative domain name were being used in connection with, say, information about government tax policy or taxation proposals, that would be one thing. But if the domain name is being used to advertise tax preparation software, then the association between "taxcut" and H&R Block's software is, again, longstanding and well established.

I can go to Canal Street in New York and find dozens of folks selling fake Rolex watches. That observation doesn't make any particular one of them a legitimate vendor...

Comment #23

He He...you might want to try something. Go into the yellow pages, and call all the lawyers. See if any one of them will talk with you for a few minutes ad give you free advice. I'm sure that some will, but not many.

Now look (in your YP book) for the lawyers that have established themselves as THE top in their industry...or even close to the top. Ask THOSE attorneys for a little free time. I'm thinking you won't get any more time than it takes for them to hang up...IF you get past their secretaries.

Now look at your current situation. You brought up a subject here, and I can only assume that you're wanting some input. Aside from all the 'opinions' you got, you've received the advice of a prominent attorney in this industry. I'd call that the peanut butter and jelly of free advice. I'd at least consider it worth listening to...

Comment #24

Yes, but not a service they are likely to want to use again.

At least not under that term.

I think they've had their belly full of that mark.

I don't remember when it first began but over 5 or so years ago they were being sued and investigated by the SEC and Attorney Generals of different states for the "false advertising" of a refund which was really a high-interest loan as you point out in your post in this thread.

This is a nice summary of what was going on back in 1998:.

April 12, 1998.

"SPENDING IT; Tax Giant's Loan Deals Stir Dispute".

"Indeed, H & R Block is on the receiving end of at least six suits now active in Federal and state courts nationwide. The suits typically accuse Block of using deceptive ads and unfair trade practices that blur the distinction between ordinary electronic filings and those that include refund anticipation loans, or R.A.L.'s.".

Look at this headline regarding the "Rapid Refund".

February 08,2001 "Block Is Ordered to Stop Advertising 'Rapid Refunds' of Taxes".

"A federal judge has ordered H&R Block, the nation's largest income-tax preparation company, to stop using the phrase ''rapid refund''.

So H&R stopped using "Rapid Refund" and started using "Refund Anticipation Loan"..

Then H&R was being sued for false advertising and deceptive practices for misleading their customers with their these high-interest loans.

And the lawsuits and investigations continued:.

March 31, 2002.

" H&R Block Is Sued by (New York) City Over Loan Ads".

November 20, 2002.

" H&R Block Settles Class-Action Suit Over Loans".

December 13, 2003.

"COMPANY NEWS; H&R BLOCK SAYS S.E.C. IS INVESTIGATING REFUND LOANS".

April 1, 2004.

"Judge Says Racketeering Suit Can Proceed Against Block...".

All Headlines from this source: http://snurl.com/rapidrefund.

Interestingly, the H&R Block TM reg for Rapid Refund seem to be a.

Design TM not for the words Rapid Refund itself.

A TM for Rapid Refund appears in the USPTO database for this past.

August 21, 2007.

It's for: "Electronic transmission of income tax return information and income tax information.'.

And claims first use in Commerce on 01/24/1986.

The applicant is: HRB INNOVATIONS, INC.

Could that be H&R Block?.

As it stands now all the major extensions for Rapid Refund are registered.

Only the .COM is regged to H&R Block.

RapidRefund.net is a live site and regged since Jan 01,2004.

Will H&RBlock or someone else want to defend the "tainted" Rapid Refund mark?.

Who knows?.

Patrick..

Comment #25

HR Block changes it to, Instant Money Refund Anticipation Loan (IRAL). (or RAC and RAL) They still say Rapid Refunds on the commercials but If you go there they now call it a IRAL. I will assume maybe thats why they dont go after anyone on the name. http://www.hrblock.com/taxes/product...fund&srchnum=1.

Jackson Hewwitt calls theres a Money Now Loan ( MNL)..

Comment #26

And imho this is EXACTLY how your usage can be your claim to use the domain. While HR has a TM for the rapid loan service. You can certainly use the domain for information (imho) on how to obtain a rapid tax refund. Usage is everything and imho I don't see how your using it for information for the many tax options available is against the TM of HR which for them is a loan service. Seems rather simple to steer clear of that scope. Maybe I am wrong though and Mr. Berryhill will tear me a new one...

Comment #27

Don't get too carried away there.... I put my pants on one leg at a time just like anybody else.

As pointed out above, there may be more to this, and while I have made some off-the-cuff observations here, I could very well be dead wrong here.

Interestingly, while HRB has at least one registration for a logo which includes "H&R Block" in it, their application for a text-only registration for "rapid refund" currently stands refused as descriptive. As noted in the action on that application, they can counter with evidence of acquired distinctiveness through longstanding substantially exclusive use. It will be interesting to see if they claim a particular date upon which they have obtained distinctiveness, in their response to that refusal.

But, as these things are driven at bottom by consumer perception, I'm at least familiar with the claimed mark, and associate it with HRB. Hardly a scientific sample, though. That's a pending application, not a registered TM.

One thing I really want to point out though. As a general principle, I don't comment on threads in which I would have any intention of counseling the OP or taking a case.

I do suspect that the OP would get a different take on this particular issue from Stevan Lieberman www.aplegal.com , as he had mentioned the HRB c&d letter campaign in a recent discussion we had...

Comment #28

It can't be true!.

On a serious note; it's a very interesting thread and HRB seems to be trying to muscle their way into a TM...

Comment #29

Yeah, well, don't let my wife find out. I'll never hear the end of it...

Comment #30

Are you saying they were refused the trademark for the words Rapid Refund? tricolorro....Thanks for an investigative, informative and time consuming response. I tried to add rep to you for the time consuming answer but it said: "We're glad that you're fond of this member, but please give some rep points to some other members before giving it to tricolorro again".

All though they do hold the domain RapidRefund.com it wasn't just handed to them...........They paid $52,945 Again, Thanks to everyone for their advice and special thanks to jberryhill as your opinions, input and advice are highly respected, very welcomed and highly appreciated by me.

Much more responce on this than I had expected...

Comment #31

Not so investigative.

As Mr Berryhill pointed out the recent trademark filing for the word mark.

"Rapid Refund" has not been approved.

From USPTO.org regarding the "Rapid Refund" application:.

"Current Status: A non-final action has been mailed. This is a letter from the examining attorney requesting additional information and/or making an initial refusal. However, no final determination as to the registrability of the mark has been made.".

I had always assumed that the results that appear in the USPTO Tess.

Site were approved Trademarks.

So I learned something today- thanks Mr Berryhill.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Thanks for the Rep attempt.

I also accept checks, money orders and PayPal deposits.

This morning I saw an ad from an H&R Block competitor- Jackson Hewitt.

The ad was on the side of a city bus here in The Bronx.

The ad was for (drum roll please): Money Now Loan.

"service" available from Jackson Hewitt.

There was no trademark symbol and USPTO shows no TM results after doing a TESS search.

Patrick.

P.S. TESS = Trademark Electronic Search System..

Comment #32

Oh yeah, they also have TAX Cut trademarked which is just as ridiculous..

TAXCUTSERVICESdotCOM is available..

Comment #33

Which actually isn't required either, IIRC. But of course, it's beneficial doing so...

Comment #34

Yeah, Might as well drop it...........From what I understand on the last few posts the judge making the decision has some common sense.

You shouldn't be able to trademark a commonly used term such as "Refund" beginning with or followed by another commonly used term such as fast or rapid.

When your expecting money back from the government on your taxes, what do you call it? I call it a refund....and if you want it back quickly it's called fast, rapid, speedy or similar.. You can not trademark and expect to control a commonly used term such as Rapid Cars, Rapid Anything or Rapid refunds.

Not sure how else to put it.....Can't get much clearer.

It's just common sense.

I could get in depth but it's just not worth it since I've expressed my feelings already...

Comment #35

Originally Posted by tricolorro.

There was no trademark symbol.

Yes, I know.

I just found it unusual that Jackson Hewitt didn't TM that.

"Money Now Loan" term.

Normally you see a TM or SM attached to all these big.

Companies ad slogans.

Patrick..

Comment #36

What you probably meant to say is one can't have absolute exclusive use for.

A trademark? That part, you won't see me disagreeing.

Unfortunately, there are certain parties who believe otherwise and have deep.

Pockets to enforce that further, even if they're overreaching. Those guys you.

Just try to avoid, if possible...

Comment #37

But I am sure they could prove their usage if needed...

Comment #38

Key word there being "recent". The older registration for the logo, in which those words dominate, still stands. I'm saying they have six months from the date of that action to respond to the currently standing refusal. That's normal...

Comment #39

Do you mind if I blog about your story at my tax blog: www.TaxHour.com..

Comment #40

This just in.... http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/d...2007-1658.html.

HRB Royalty, Inc. v. Asif Vadaria.

Case No. D2007-1658..

Comment #41

No, not surprising since Wipo rules in favor of the complainant in over 80% of the cases and this one was different from the "Tax Analysts" decision...

Comment #42

I'm not surprised but disappointed...once again with UDRP panelists.

How could TaxCutters infringe on Tax Cut?.

That's like saying Sprinting (fast running) infringes on Sprint telecom.

Afternic thought so when I listed Sprinting.us in their domain marketplace.

Why was Tax Cut ever granted such broad trademark protection in the first place? H&R Block Tax Cut trademark -yes! Tax Cut trademark- no!.

Patrick..

Comment #43

84%, and many of those are unchalleneged and many others ARE blatant squatting. The percentage I would like to see where a defended domain could show rights for both sides and the ruling percentages on those cases...

Comment #44

I just saw a commercial for H&R Blocks Tax Cut.

Apparently it's a tax software product that lets their customers do their own taxes and connect with a Block rep if they run into trouble.

It's a software product.

How can it be confused with TaxCutInc which offered tax and accounting services?.

Patrick..

Comment #45

Because that isn't the name of the respondants company...

(ii) The Domain Name takes the form of <taxcutinc.com> and the Respondent apparently does not actually trade under the names Tax Cut or Tax Cut Inc. He instead trades under the name Tax Cutters Inc. The difference is perhaps a small one, but it is an important one, particularly when one bears in mind points (iii) and (iv) below...

Comment #46

Yes I saw that their company name is Tax Cutters Inc.

My point is that Tax Cut is a software product not a full-fledged business.

Also if you look at the UDRP decision ,it says:.

"This registration is for the words tax cut... ".

But it's not.

It clearly shows a graphic with these words: H&R Block Tax Cut.

That's H&R Block Tax Cut NOT just Tax Cut alone.

The panelist should have seen this.

It's a BIG difference.

Tax Cut is such a common expression.

You hear it so much in the news.

It's such a generic term that no one should be granted trademark rights.

For it for tax related purposes.

If you want to call a candy bar Tax cut, fine.

Get your TM.

I just don't like what I see going on with trademark overreach.

And domain coveting.

In Canada last year the trademark holder for the words Cheap Tickets.

Lost it's registered trademark while trying to assert it's trademark rights against a descriptive domain name registrant.

See here: http://snurl.com/CheapTicketsCase.

Unfortunately a similar case in the US courts which tried to overturn the trademark for Cheap Tickets (CheapTickets.com) was (sadly) not successful. Purely descriptive words should not be granted trademark rights unless it will be used outside the descriptive meaning.

I.e. Apple (computers), Broadway (candy bar), Windows (software).

Generic words or expressions that could be used by many different businesses should be granted only limited trademark rights so others could also use them but differently.

If you don't agree with the above, you will once you have a descriptive or generic domain taken away from you.

The respondent in this Tax Cut case chose to register the domain TaXCutInc.com.

Yet that is not his business name.

Tax Cutters,Inc is.

But taxcuttersinc.com is not registered.

Why not?.

I don't have a clue.

Patrick..

Comment #47

Not at all since the defendent did not reply or respond to the complainant... From what I read any way...

Comment #48

Because he knew he would get more hits using someone else's TM..

Comment #49

Exactly... also the term tax cut is generic when it's used in regards to lowering taxes, aka offering a tax cut. Tax Cut software does not lower taxes, it is a software package that assists people in filing their taxes. I believe the TM for Tax Cut (the software) is valid in that it is clearly outside the specific descriptive scope of the term.

Whether the TM is for H&R Block Tax Cut or just Tax Cut, the use of taxcutinc.com for a company called tax cutters, imho is clearly predatory and bad faith use. The fact they didn't respond seems it may indicate they know they were wrong...

Comment #50

He certainly did respond. "B. Respondent.

5.7 The Respondent responds to the Complainants contentions as follows:.

Trademark rights.

5.8 The Respondent makes a number of factual contentions in respect of registered trademark no. No 3,150,594. In particular, he notes that the mark takes the form of a stylised mark, it is descriptive and that the Complainant did not start to use this mark until long after [he] began use.

5.9 He also claims the words Tax Cut to be two English words that are used extensively in everyday language. He claims that generic names such as these are regarded by the law as free for all to use and they are in the public domain. Reference is made to a large number of other websites that use that term either as the two words tax cut or as a single word taxcut.

...there's more.

Patrick..

Comment #51

I've read several and got it confused with another....Ooops!..

Comment #52

Originally Posted by tricolorro.

He certainly did respond.

"B. Respondent.

5.7 The Respondent responds to the Complainants contentions as follows:.

Trademark rights.

5.8 The Respondent makes a number of factual contentions in respect of registered trademark no. No 3,150,594. In particular, he notes that the mark takes the form of a stylised mark, it is descriptive and that the Complainant did not start to use this mark until long after [he] began use.

5.9 He also claims the words Tax Cut to be two English words that are used extensively in everyday language. He claims that generic names such as these are regarded by the law as free for all to use and they are in the public domain. Reference is made to a large number of other websites that use that term either as the two words tax cut or as a single word taxcut.

...there's more.

Patrick.

Don't worry about it.

I'm confused most of the time.

Patrick..

Comment #53


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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