In the Complaint, under "Mutual Jurisdiction" the complainant was required to pick either your location or the location of your registrar. Look back at the Complaint - it is written right there.
If it was an NAF decision, they send a helpful reminder along with transmission of the decision. In the actual email that sent the Notice of Decision, it will state the selected mutual jurisdiction...
Rama, was this at the NAF or WIPO?.
If it was at the NAF, look at the email you received with the decision. Not the decision - the email to which the decision was attached.
If it was WIPO, and the complainant used their suggested complaint format, look toward the end of the body of the complaint at the headings of the Roman numbered sections. Being aware of the relevant and applicable law, and knowing how to draft and file a civil complaint, would likely be helpful...
Did you find the mutual jurisdiction specified for the proceeding or not?..
Can you provide answers to both scenarios, I think it is and it's not.
Do you you know of examples of some of our brothers that have gone this route?.
How did they fare?.
Tips and common mistakes?.
I appreciate any input...
Rama, can't you really retain a lawyer for this one? I read your same query in DS, but you might "harm" your case if you pursue it yourself.
John, can groups like InternetJustice.Org help? Just wondering if that's something the OP can perhaps look into, given s/he seemingly wants to handle this on their own...
Tnx for your input. First I don't know about that website, do you have experience with them. Look, I am a poor man, recent military retired. I have one stinking life left that should of ended in the battle field with some of my real brothers that I want to prove to in spirit who didn't sacrified their shit for nothing.
As for the lawsuit, ideally I have to handle this myself, unless there's some kind brother lawyer who will do this "pro bono" on some level.
I will take a look of the site.
I really tnx you for your smart ideas! everyone...
Hope it's not 10 calendar days - if it is, the OP is already practically out of time.
I couldn't find clarification either way ... some registrars say 10 days while some say 10 business days; OP may have plenty of time until the following week, but maybe not.
IMHO, the OP should ask himself - would the average person immediately associate the domain name with the complainant?.
In addition, if one does a google search on the full domain / keywords in the domain, what comes up? ... links to a variety of different sites or mostly links to the complainant.
In respect to the TM ... does the complainant actively do business in the U.S. - I presume the answer is yes ... but if the answer, though unlikely, is no, that would give the OP something to work with.
In regards to the domain itself ... how long has the OP owned it ... a short time or more than two years? ... was it a first time registration or had it expire? -if it expired, was it acquired manually or using a drop service?.
With all that said, UDRP is a relatively simple, less formal, do-it-yourself process compared to filing a lawsuit regarding trademark law, which is very arcane and is often counter-intutive ... ie. many domainers search the USPTO as if it's a whois; many mistakeningly assume that "dead", "canceled", etc mean the TM is gone not understanding those statuses refer to the TM filing and not the actual TM itself, but I digress.
IMHO, I feel the OP would do best, if they can find a few hundred dollars, to do an on-line / phone consultation on how to best proceed with litigation with an attorney experienced with domain name issues, such as those who regularly post here.
OP = Original Poster..
In this case = YOU...
It's 10 business days: ICANN | Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy..
I luv you guys.... like the dog said in "UP".....
I'll make this simple. There is no way in ten days you are going to learn to draft and file a civil complaint. If your fact pattern matches one of the very few post-UDRP suits, one of them may or may not be applicable to your situation. The simplest scenario is one in which the complainant does not claim a US trademark. Now, you've read their flipping UDRP complaint, so you should have a pretty good idea whether or not they claimed to have a US trademark.
In the simplest situation, if the mutual jurisdiction is the US, and the complainant does not have rights in the US, then the complainant is going to lose, as a consequence of the Fourth Circuit decision in the Barcelona.com case, among others. Yes, several. I've advised or been lead attorney on most post-UDRP suits that have been filed in ten years. But trademark disputes are fact specific. Examples of a civil complaint which was based on absence of US mark (e.g. lomonaco.com), a generic word (traditions.com, cello.com, chillibeans.com), fair nominative reference (aspis.com, weber-grills.com), given name (strick.com) and other fact patterns and main theories - are all going to look different from each other.
One of the best attorneys in the business is located in New York - Brett Lewis at Brooklyn NY Law Firm | Lewis & Hand LLP Internet Law Trademark Law Real Estate Probate & Estate Administration New York. "Poor" is a relative and subjective term. You do know that it's going to cost you $350 to file a civil suit. Now, if there is a serious possibility of the other side actually showing up (unless they are also a small player with an obscure mark in some remote jurisdiction), then they are going to start filing preliminary motions which you are not going to have the slightest notion what to do with, and that's if you figure out how to draft a complaint. Unlikely, unless there is some important social purpose served by you having the domain name. If it's simply a matter of it being valuable for some reason, or earning revenue, lawyers are typically not in the business of volunteering time - and litigation involves serious time - simply so that other people can make money.
But there seems to be a widespread notion that us lawyers sit around twiddling our thumbs and looking for something to do all day...
Well, some of the retired military buddy who invested in these names with me have nothing now due to foreclosure, non-transferable skills, max-out credit cards with over 30% interest. We are spread out all over the country.
In the battle field, I saved some with my rifle, and some saved me with their rifle. But coming back to this, the pounding ques in our head is WHY? I promise them that this shit will work.
Some should not have suicide...
Well, Rama, perhaps you might put down the rifle for a moment and answer the question about whether the Complainant claimed, in the complaint, to have trade or service mark rights in the US.
If they did not expressly claim that, perhaps you might answer an alternative question about whether they conduct business in the US (i.e. is their stuff sold here) using the trademark in question...
I like to know what are some of the arguments made in scenarios like these?.
I can't say, I just want to keep my domain names?.
Should I argue.
1. the decision was unjust.
2. there were similiar domain names the co-exist previously.
I am just looking for a concise argument.. basically, I don't agree with the decision and I am here to contest it in civil court.
Any statues or law that I should reference?..
Well, I've been trying to figure out what kind of scenario you have.
Your question is like asking, "What pill should I take if I'm sick." It really depends on what kind of sickness you have, but it's like pulling teeth to get answers here on a few simple diagnostic questions.
Let me ask you a question - What's the best way to attack an enemy position? Should I use a rifle, a mortar, grenades, call an air strike, or go in with a tank? Don't you think that you'd like to know a little more about my tactical circumstances? Now, I'd be about as useful on a battlefield as you would be in a court but, good golly, at least I'd answer your questions if you started asking me "what kind of enemy position do you want to attack?" because I'm certain you know a lot more about the subject than I ever will. No, you are not looking for an argument. A civil complaint is not an argument - it is a concise statement of facts showing that you are entitled to relief under the applicable law. Now, if you take a look at UDRP Rule 4(k), you are entitled to seek an "independent determination" that your domain registration was lawful. Nobody, least of all a court, is going to care a whole lot about the UDRP decision. What you are seeking is a determination that your domain registration did not violate US law, which is a different kettle of fish than the UDRP.
If you don't like your financial circumstances now, you are going to like it a lot less when you wade into a gunfight with a pocket knife.
So, here are three examples of civil complaints that were filed post-UDRP. There have been very few of these cases over the years - maybe a dozen or so. http://www.johnberryhill.com/aspis.pdf - this was a complaint brought after the Aspis.com UDRP decision. This is a free-speech/nominative us case. The defendant TM claimant has defaulted, and the plaintiff domain registrant should soon be obtaining a default judgment. http://www.johnberryhill.com/mailplanet.pdf - this was a complaint brought after the Lomonaco.com UDRP decision.
Accordingly, the court dismissed the case and the plaintiff domain registrant kept the domain name. http://www.johnberryhill.com/bme.pdf - This is an amended complaint filed after the Bme.com UDRP decision. This case has turned into a battle of will between the plaintiff and defendant, and the only interesting question is which one of them is going to go broke first, since they are both determined to spend each other into oblivion.
Maybe one of these is relevant to your situation. Maybe none of them are. But, frankly, if it takes two days to get a responsive answer on the question of "what is the mutual jurisdiction" and several more days to get a responsive answer to "do they claim US trademark rights", it is simply not going to be possible within ten business days to go down an appropriate decision tree to figure out what, if any, prior situation might be at all analogous to your own, or even if you have a battle on your hands worth fighting at all.
So... These aren't just questions arising from idle curiosity, and I'll throw out a few more.... (starting at "2" since 1 and 1(a) are above, and you won't answer them).
3. Is the Complainant located, or have locations (like dealers or distributors) in the US?.
4. Did they use a law firm located in the US?..
Tnx for the info...
3. Is the Complainant located, or have locations (like dealers or distributors) in the US?.
Yes. lots of stores.
4. Did they use a law firm located in the US?.
Yes, you are right about me. I am a little, you know, sometimes. My ethusiasam (how you spell it) might get the best of me sometimes...
5. Did they in their Complaint, claim ownership of a registered trademark in the United States and, if so, 5(a) does that trademark registration pre-date your registration of the domain name? 5(b) the claimed date of first use? Does the registration state "Principal - 2(f)" anywhere on it?.
6. What, if anything, was at the webpage corresponding to your domain name(s)?..
Can you edit out the violent stuff in your post. don't wana get anyone alarmed. Post added at 01:12 PM Previous post was at 01:09 PM they claimed all kind of stuff. tm, dates, and all.
Dont see "Principal - 2(f)" anywhere. What is that?.
-not disclosing my content...
Oh, okay, well, then we'll just cut to the chase on what you should put into your complaint:.
Just file a civil complaint claiming all kinds of other "stuff".
You'll do fine. Que?..
Another great thread by jberryhill; thoroughly enjoyed the content and commentary!..