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Good tree bad tree... Please help me understand! (3 images)
Hi all,.

Recently got my 450D back from Canon after sending back due to bad front focus (mine was one of the ones that did genuinely have a prob!). The camera is now MUCH better, but I'm still getting some results I don't understand. Pretty sure they're user (i.e 'me') error, but hopefully one of you goodly folk can shed some light on the issue, and reassure me my lens/camera is OK!.

Last weekend I took many shots in the Lake District (UK), some of which have blurred areas of the shot I can't account for. Take this shot below for example... the tree in the centre (good tree) is in focus (ish), but the tree on the right (bad tree) is badly out of focus, despite me stopping down the lens to F8.0. Also the mountain in the background seems in focus, which makes me think it's not a depth of field issue. If anyone can help me understand I'd appreciate it. Shots/settings/100% crops are below.



Shot settings:Camera: EOS 450DLens: 18-55 IS Kit LensAv mode (F8.0)Shutter: 1/320 secISO 200Focal length 18.0mm.

Handheld with IS ON using standard phase detect AF focussed on good tree in centre..

Original shot (scaled down):.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Good tree: (100% crop).

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Bad tree: (100% crop).

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window..

Comments (23)

It doesn't look like a focus issue to me. Kit lenses are never as sharp at the egdes as they are in the centre so that could be what you are seeing, although it does seem more pronounced than I would expect at f8 (I'm not a canon user so I can't say what is normal for this lens). Alternatively it could just be a a gust of wind moving the branches at the wrong moment although agsin I don't think so becuase the wall beyound looks out of focus too..

To be honest though, unless you're planning to do a big enlargement it will probably not be too noticeable. I'd be more bothered by the fact that the image is overexposed. This is a situation where you would have benefited from using a ND Grad filter to balance out the foreground and sky..

Confused of Malvern.

'The greatest fool can ask more than the wisest man can answer'..

Comment #1

Any lens is better in the middle than closer to the edge, but if yours does this at f/8 than you may want to replace it with a better lens. L lens..

Http://lordofthelens.co.nz/..

Comment #2

I, too, thought it was the softness to the side of mid-quality lenses, since nothing on the right side was in focus - not the front grass, not the tree, nor the rocks behind it..

But then I looked at the left side, and the trees there seemed to be sharper. So now I'm not sure if it's the quality of the lens...

Comment #3

If you look at the trees to the left of your 'right' tree, they are relatively sharp, the other tree isn't. I too wonder if wind had something to do with it..

Hard to say from your one picture. Your shutter speed should freeze motion.Maybe the writing on the wall could use a little revisionShane Koyczan (Slam Poet)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f02Q5IFoyKw&NR=1..

Comment #4

Many thanks for the replies folks. I don't think wind was the issue as the wall is also blurred as already mentioned, and the shutter speed was quite fast. If it is the lens softness at edges, do you think this is unusually bad for a kit lens? I can't afford an L lens yet, so don't want to upgrade if I can avoid it. Should I send this lens back as substandard within the terms of the warantee? Thanks for all comments, they are much appreciated...

Comment #5

It's worth doing a standard 'brick wall' test (or sheet of newsprint taped to a wall test) at various apertures. Use a tripod. That will clear up whether or not the 'bad' tree was caught by a gust of wind..

You don't expect kit lenses to be brilliant but the new Canon 18-55 IS is said to be pretty good: see.

Http://www.photozone.de/...0-canon-ef-s-18-55mm-f35-56-ii-test-reportreview.

That edge at f/8 looks pretty poor and if you can reproduce this under test conditions it's worth asking to swap it for another copy. If it is clearly worse on one side than the other then the lens has an obvious centering defect and there should be no argument..

Best wishesMike..

Comment #6

Thanks Mike,.

I'll try and do that test in the nest few days. I need to get a tripod first! .. or maybe I can perch the camera somewhere..

I love this camera but I'm not having much luck getting it working right. It's been to Canon once already! Hopefully I'll get things sorted soon..

Thanks again...

Comment #7

I would test with other lens(s), including highest quality ones..

If still a repeatable problem .....

I wonder if the sensor-mount "alignment" could be not flat/perpendicular..

Roblavapies wrote:.

Hi all,.

Recently got my 450D back from Canon after sending back due to badfront focus (mine was one of the ones that did genuinely have aprob!). The camera is now MUCH better, but I'm still getting someresults I don't understand. Pretty sure they're user (i.e 'me')error, but hopefully one of you goodly folk can shed some light onthe issue, and reassure me my lens/camera is OK!.

Last weekend I took many shots in the Lake District (UK), some ofwhich have blurred areas of the shot I can't account for. Take thisshot below for example... the tree in the centre (good tree) is infocus (ish), but the tree on the right (bad tree) is badly out offocus, despite me stopping down the lens to F8.0. Also the mountainin the background seems in focus, which makes me think it's not adepth of field issue. If anyone can help me understand I'd appreciateit. Shots/settings/100% crops are below.



Shot settings:Camera: EOS 450DLens: 18-55 IS Kit LensAv mode (F8.0)Shutter: 1/320 secISO 200Focal length 18.0mmHandheld with IS ON using standard phase detect AF focussed on goodtree in centre..

Original shot (scaled down):.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Good tree: (100% crop).

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Bad tree: (100% crop).

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Thanks for reading .... JoePhoto.

( Do You Ever STOP to THINK and FORGET to START Again ??? )..

Comment #8

It looks to me like a lens centering problem and needs Canon to adjust it. Try another lens and see if it goes away..

Cheers, Craig..

Comment #9

Rent a really good lens for a weekend and see if your results are better. If not, I would return the camera or send it in for adjustment. If the results are better, I would return the lens..

Jerryhttp://jchoate.zenfolio.com/..

Comment #10

Why should the OP have to rent a lens at his own expense to find out if he has a defective one from the manufacturer?.

Try a few more shots on a tripod or resting on a stationary object using self timer mode at about the same focal length and distance. If those shots show similar results chances are you have a lens problem..

I don't know your warranty situation, and assuming the tests above show similar results regarding a soft right, a visit to the camera store you purchased from or a talk with Canon service seems in order. The right side of the image seems really soft compared to center and left...

Comment #11

Mrx....

Because if he does what you suggest he still won't know for certain whether the camera or the lens is at fault. Maybe he can borrow a good lens from someone..

Jerryhttp://jchoate.zenfolio.com/..

Comment #12

Hi guys, thanks for your replies. I just tried this shot of my bookshelf and it doesn't look to bad. Do you think this proves or disproves anything?.

Thanks in advance!.

Shot settings are:Camera: EOS 450DLens: 18-55 IS Kit Lens (at wide angle 18mm)Av mode (F8.0)Shutter: 0.3 secISO 200Focal length 18.0mm.

Camera not handheld, perched on books, with IS ON using Live View AF focussed as far right and down as possible..

Here's original scaled down... followed by 100% crop of bottom right corner..

Orginal:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

100% crop of bottom right corner:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Thanks for the help folks..

Comment #13

Everything looks fine. I don't have a clue what was wrong with the tree photo. I once got a few blurry photos like that when doing landscapes in the desert. I checked the focus and saw that all the AF points were lit. I switched to a single AF point and began paying more attention to DOF, and I did not have any more problems. Sometimes the problem can be as simple as rushing your shots and, thus, overlooking a basic thing like that..

Enjoy your new rig..

Jerryhttp://jchoate.zenfolio.com/..

Comment #14

Go out and have fun with your camera. Concentrate on what it takes to make a good photo, gets some books out of the library and learn photo techniques - doesn't matter if the books have film content, the principles are all the same..

You are going to take many many bad photos in your life time, but you can learn from them.Maybe the writing on the wall could use a little revisionShane Koyczan (Slam Poet)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f02Q5IFoyKw&NR=1..

Comment #15

My issue is that a purchaser should test and retest if a quality problem is in doubt. The user should not have to spend money to do so. Since the camera and lens are made by the same manufacturer, and if multiple, controlled tests show an issue, the manufacturer should bear the cost..

A suggestion to the OP. Your bookcase experiment was at close range and the camera/lens was stabilized. Your original shot showing an issue was at long range and not stabilized..

Try a few shots at long range and stabilized before you reach a conclusion. If those turn out to be conclusively soft on the right side then send both the body and lens to the manufacturer / local store and ask them politely for satisfaction...

Comment #16

Something looks wrong with the second image, considering the camera you used.

Michael, Londonhttp://www.michaelxuereb.com.

Cheers!..

Comment #17

I know you'd hate to be without your camera for more time, but the 450D is much more capable than what you've posted, kit lens or not. Although, it's only two images. If you post more you might get some better feedback. If the consensus is the same after more images, you should ask for teh lens to be calibrated or replaced...

Comment #18

Many thanks for the replies flks. I just did this test shot to see if anyone might be able to help me make my mind up if I should send the lens/camera back again!.

Any comments appreciated. Shot info below:.

Kit Lens at 18mm, ISO 200, RAW, Tv 1/200sec, F10.0, Av mode, using centre focus point, IS on, handheld..

Original shot scaled down.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

100% crop of centre of image:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

100% crop of right side of image:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

To me, stuff in distance seems washed out and right siide of image looks worse. Any comments appreciated!.

P.S. It was very still, not windy day..

Comment #19

Canon kit lens is known as very low quality lens. It is soft at edges. That's all about it...

Comment #20

This isn't quite a fair test: the tree on the right may have been moving slightly and, depending on what you focussed on, may not be exactly in focus. Also you cannot compare left and right sides from this picture. But this looks to me no worse than the usual difference between centre and edge performance that you expect with a kit lens. You can see chromatic aberration of the leaves against the white sky, but this is known for your lens: see.

Http://www.photozone.de/...ef-s-18-55mm-f35-56-is-test-reportreview?start=1.

For a fair test use a brick wall (or sheet of newsprint stick to a wall) and a tripod with the camera pointed squarely at the subject so that all of it is in the focal plane..

A word of caution: don't get too hung up on this. 100% crops constitute much larger enlargements that you are ever likely to use in real life, something like a 30 x 20 inch poster print. *Any* lens will show it's limitations if you make a print that size and then stare at it from a few inches away: if you look for defects you will find them. If your lens is genuinely faulty, e.g. with a centering defect, it should be clear from a shot of a sheet of newsprint with one side of the image clearly being worse than the other. If you see marginal differences at 100% crop size then that is probably not real-world significant, and the typical result of a kit lens (there is a reason that L-series lenses are so expensive...).

Best wishesMike..

Comment #21

That was the oder version that came wit the 350D / 400D. The new version (with IS, which this poster has) is much better - you can see comparative reviews on photozone.de.

Best wishesMike..

Comment #22

Before you mislead people you should attempt a little research..

I know it's easy to be lazy, but JFC, the Canon 18-55 kit lens was reviewed in Digital Photography Review, so you would not even have had to type five letters..

The review says: " Fortunately for them, Canon have indeed upped the ante with this new lens; it's much better than it's predecessor, especially in terms of sharpness in the corners and at wider apertures, and with reduced chromatic aberrations to boot. Indeed overall it's an extremely well-behaved little lens, with very few nasty surprises for the user, and a remarkably good image stabilisation unit; indeed Canon's main concern may ultimately become whether users have as much incentive to upgrade to more expensive optics as they did before.".

BAK..

Comment #23

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This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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