snubbr.com

Going from RAW to JPEG?
I shoot all of my pics RAW. I then do some PP on them. When I want to print one, I save it as a JPEG and take it to a local print shop. My question is am I losing overall image quality going to JPEG? Should I save it RAW and have the print shop print it in RAW format, is that possible? Any advice, or even what you do in this situation is appreciated...

Comments (15)

That is the way most of us do. However you may like to save some (important/better ones) of the final image as 16 bit tiff. For printing etc you may convert that to 8-bit jpg (if color lab is not able to print from 16-bit TIFF file)..

No perceptible advantage in printing from Raw. The advantage of Raw is realised during processing/editing itself (having more data to work with, hence less chance of processing artefacts)..

Bayamon wrote:.

I shoot all of my pics RAW. I then do some PP on them. When I want toprint one, I save it as a JPEG and take it to a local print shop. Myquestion is am I losing overall image quality going to JPEG? Should Isave it RAW and have the print shop print it in RAW format, is thatpossible? Any advice, or even what you do in this situation isappreciated..

Best Wishes, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612Thanks for visiting and leaving comments ..

Comment #1

Give your print shop RAW files? Bad Idea..

F JPEG is a common format, a kind of lingua franca of raster images. Your printer will be able to work easily with this format..

F RAW is not a true image format, it is a description of a kind of data. Each camera manufacturer encodes RAW data in a different, and proprietary, format. They even change the specs from one model of a camera to another. Your printer may not have the software to decode your camera's RAW data..

F RAW data is by definition unmanipulated data. You would be asking your printer to set white balance, gamma, contrast, saturation, noise reduction, sharpening... really, figure out for himself how you wanted the print to look. And he would also have come up with the cropping on his own, too..

So yes, you'd be sending your printer more info, in a way, but much less information from a different point of view. Assuming you find a printer willing to take the time to process and convert your RAW files, do you really want to surrender all control over what the outcome will be?.

Regards, John..

Comment #2

Bayamon wrote:.

I shoot all of my pics RAW. I then do some PP on them. When I want toprint one, I save it as a JPEG and take it to a local print shop..

Nice..

Myquestion is am I losing overall image quality going to JPEG?.

Not really. Just a bit  You COULD improve your part of the deal by giving them tiffs. However, with most "local" print shops, input file format is the least worry you'll have..

Should Isave it RAW and have the print shop print it in RAW format, is thatpossible?.

It's common courtesy to research the subject at least a bit before you ask the question. Yes, I realize this is beginners forum. But just a bit of research would have yielded the following:.

- raw is NOT an image format- you CAN'T save to raw.

- raw is a bit like unprocessed negative. If you give them a raw file, you don't know what you are going to get..

Any advice, or even what you do in this situation isappreciated..

It would be quite ok if you give them max quality jpgs. Before worrying about jpg compression, I'd worry about other things, such as:- calibrated devices, especially display- color managed workflow on your end- color managed workflow on THEIR end- paper quality and profiles..

Next step would be tiff 8, next tiff 16, next a colorspace larger than RGB, provided they support it..

/d/n..

Comment #3

Ajay0612 wrote:.

That is the way most of us do. However you may like to save some(important/better ones) of the final image as 16 bit tiff..

So does that mean have to open them into PS as 16 bit? (but I know 16 bit dosen't give you much freedom when it comes to editing). Or can I open as 8 bit, do my editing then save as 16 bit tiff?.

And why tiff vs jpeg?.

Thanks.

Devnull wrote:.

- calibrated devices, especially display- color managed workflow on your end- color managed workflow on THEIR end- paper quality and profiles..

I have been wondering about that as well, because I just had a picture printed by the shop that came out underexposed compared what I see on my monitor. I researched it a bit, and it seems like it came get a little expensive. I've also heard you can do it the cheap way and hold the picture up next to your monitor..

Thanks..

Comment #4

Bayamon wrote:.

Ajay0612 wrote:.

That is the way most of us do. However you may like to save some(important/better ones) of the final image as 16 bit tiff..

So does that mean have to open them into PS as 16 bit?.

Yes..

(but I know 16bit dosen't give you much freedom when it comes to editing)..

Well. Many editing programs support editing in 16-bit mode..

Or can Iopen as 8 bit, do my editing then save as 16 bit tiff?.

Futile..

And why tiff vs jpeg?.

Tiff is a lossless compression format. That is why these files are huge (Maybe more than the size of your Raw file)...

Comment #5

Devnull wrote:.

It's common courtesy to research the subject at least a bit beforeyou ask the question. Yes, I realize this is beginners forum. Butjust a bit of research would have yielded the following:.

- raw is NOT an image format- you CAN'T save to raw- raw is a bit like unprocessed negative. If you give them a rawfile, you don't know what you are going to get..

How very condescending of you..

Most people do not realise that RAW files have no universally accepted common format (Adobe RAW is the nearest). Why should they?.

The OP has a Nikon D50. If he is using Nikon Capture NX he can, to all intents and purposes "Save in RAW". You can store as many version as you like of your photo within a single Nikon NEF file. He need never save a jpeg or TIFF if printing for himself..

You are of course correct that it would make no real sense to send a NEF or any other RAW file to a printing outlet. The most sensible solution is to send a v. large (100%) jpeg file and, for a very special photograph only maybe a 16 bit TIFF..

Chris Elliott.

*Nikon* D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile.

Http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/..

Comment #6

Bayamon wrote:.

Ajay0612 wrote:.

That is the way most of us do. However you may like to save some(important/better ones) of the final image as 16 bit tiff..

So does that mean have to open them into PS as 16 bit? (but I know 16bit dosen't give you much freedom when it comes to editing)..

If you mean that a few filters do not work with 16 bit, yes. If you are speaking of the editing latitude, it's quite the opposite..

Or can Iopen as 8 bit, do my editing then save as 16 bit tiff?.

No point..

And why tiff vs jpeg?.

Because (most!) tiffs are uncompressed or losslessly compressed formats..

Thanks.

Devnull wrote:.

- calibrated devices, especially display- color managed workflow on your end- color managed workflow on THEIR end- paper quality and profiles..

I have been wondering about that as well, because I just had apicture printed by the shop that came out underexposed compared whatI see on my monitor. I researched it a bit, and it seems like it cameget a little expensive. I've also heard you can do it the cheap wayand hold the picture up next to your monitor..

Not that expensive - if I remember right, a Spyder is about 50$. Very nice to have, especially for skin tones..

The picture next to your monitor... It does not work VERY bad, but there are problems..

For example, if they don't color manage quite carefully, the same image might get printed in their shop very differently from a day to another. Here it's quite common, especially in malls. You basically can not compensate for their end of the business. If the print quality varies, you can either find a shop that works properly, or print at home..

Of course, it gets REALLY wild if you use several print shops .

Thanks..

Comment #7

Chris Elliott wrote:.

This is off-topic, appologies to the original poster..

Maybe I am becoming a grumpy old man - and I'd like to know if it is such .

How very condescending of you..

English is not my first. Although I do know the general meaning of the word, I did look it up. Which one of the three meanings are you using?.

Http://www.google.com/...;hs=VqC&q=define%3Acondescension&btnG=Search.

Most people do not realise that RAW files have no universallyaccepted common format (Adobe RAW is the nearest). Why should they?.

You mean that different cameras use different raw standards? Every month or so a new version of ACR is announced, the major upgrade being that it supports this or that camera. I don't see how that's relevant for the topic..

If you mean that different converters have different interpretations... well, duh! Raw is not exactly greenhorn-novice-newbie pointandclick stuff. If one decided to use raw and maybe even spend some money on an aftermarket converter, it does not seem very far fetched that he did studied which converter should be purchased and how each works..

The OP has a Nikon D50..

Was this mentioned?.

If he is using Nikon Capture NX he can, toall intents and purposes "Save in RAW"..

I am not shooting Nikon or using Capture NX. So, to return your question, why should I know?  Now, really, I have some ideea about what it does, but there's a huge but here. The ideea of _saving_. I save a jpg/gif/png. I can open it again on a variety of machines and software and get exactly what I saved. With a raw file, that's absolutely not true.

I might be wrong, of course..

So, I'd say that there are at least two intents and purposes where one can't "save as raw": saving for another converter and saving for somebody else - i.e. the print shop..

You can store as many versionas you like of your photo within a single Nikon NEF file. He neednever save a jpeg or TIFF if printing for himself..

Can one open this enhanced NEF files in other converters or DAM applications? Are the converted images the same? Can he apply a photoshop only filter on them? .

You are of course correct that it would make no real sense to send aNEF or any other RAW file to a printing outlet. The most sensiblesolution is to send a v. large (100%) jpeg file and, for a veryspecial photograph only maybe a 16 bit TIFF..

We agree on that. What I don't see is where the condescendence thing came from..

Did I say something wrong? Don't you agree that a minimum of research should be done before asking a question? Was the tone too harsh?.

I don't think I patronized the OP. I answered the question and even plused some extra information..

Please, enlighten me. I don't want to become grumpy... _and not know it!_.

/d/n..

Comment #8

There doesn't need to be minimum research done, or to state it otherwise; many people learn differently. I learn from books and magazines, I read continually, I like visual graphs, but that's me..

Wouldn't you say for the OP, that by asking his question here he is doing "minimum" research; it's his/her's way of learning. Its legitimate to come to a beginner's forum and ask very basic questions. The reason this forum was started was that the "Pro" forum geeky types started whining and complaining about "beginners" polluting their wonderful forum, this was what evolved out of that conversation.Rationally I have no hope, irrationally I believe in miracles.Joni Mitchell..

Comment #9

I didn't mean to start a war lol. Perhaps I could have shed more light on the situation. I shoot with a Nikon D50; I use Photoshop 5.0 ( thats what I ment about not being able to do much editing with 16 bit). I have been shooting almost 4 years, but just recently started getting deeper into PP. I understand the camera aspect way more than the computer/editing aspect. I appreciate all the response and help, this is the way I learn photography.

Being that if I am going to have prints made bring them to the same shop everytime(make sure they know what their doing), make sure my pics are TIFF 's, and I'm still a little confused on whether I can do my editing and still have it 16 bit when I go to print them. And look into getting my monitor calibrated to my pics..

Thanks for all the input..

Comment #10

Hello, again..

If you are converting your images to 8-bit per channel depth from 16 bit per channel in order to perform necessary edits in Photoshop 5.0, there is not much point in converting back to 16 when finished. The information that the additional bit depth was able to record is gone and cannot be conjured back into existence..

If you like, save the edited image as a TIFF, uncompressed or with LZW compression; either method is lossless. Or store it in JPG format using minimal compression (highest quality). Both should be fine for sending your file on to a print service. I would choose the TIFF format if I were asking the printer to resize the image for me. But I'd much rather take care of the sizing and resolution issues myself, before sending the image off..

Stepping back a bit..... have you talked to your printer of choice to investigate what format and resolution they prefer and why they prefer it? This might be an interesting conversation. I'm also curious about the reason for your post... in other words, what problems have you been encountering, working with JPEG files and printers, that you'd like to solve? If you are unhappy with your current results, I strongly suspect that the root of the problem is not here amongst the file formats and the subtle effects of minimal JPEG compression..

Regards, John..

Comment #11

The overall reason I asked this question is because I recently had some pictures enlarged (8x12). When I picked them up I noticed they lacked the "pop" that they had on my monitor. I was just wondering what I can do to get the best print results, but now I know..

Regards, Nolan..

Comment #12

Rsn48 wrote:.

Wouldn't you say for the OP, that by asking his question here he isdoing "minimum" research; it's his/her's way of learning..

Actually, I wouldn't say so, and it's not about the OP. Just push that logic train to the end of the track. If no research is requested before posting, what's the minimum answerable question? How do I charge the battery? How do I unpack the camera? Or, to make it worse, how do I unpack my 8000$ camera?.

Itslegitimate to come to a beginner's forum and ask very basicquestions..

Yep, and I submit they are expected to do the minimum research I was talking about; see below..

The reason this forum was started was that the "Pro"forum geeky types started whining and complaining about "beginners"polluting their wonderful forum, this was what evolved out of thatconversation..

I don't know the history of the beginner's forum, and it does not say in the header; however, each time one posts, above the text box is the provision:.

New posters - Before you ask a question please check to see if someone else has asked it before, ask our search engine first..

I submit the aim of that rule is not only to save dpreview hdd space and bandwith, but also to "elevate" the discussion level: how many times can one answer: how do I mount my lens?.

How many visitors would have a forum with half a page of these question? It's quite bad already for the beginners; about half of the posts are in the line of "what should I buy"..

/d/n.

PS. After a free week shooting it's even more clear to me that I'd rather spend time on my photography than screen these fora trying to separate the wheat from the chaff...

Comment #13

You are of course correct that it would make no real sense to send aNEF or any other RAW file to a printing outlet. The most sensiblesolution is to send a v. large (100%) jpeg file and, for a veryspecial photograph only maybe a 16 bit TIFF..

There is no need to send anything to print other than a top quality JPEG. TIFF offers absolutely no advantage whatsoever, and even if it did, it would not be visible in printing (see below)..

I know of no printer anywhere that can print 16 bit information to paper..

Most printers are only making their best ATTEMPT at getting a full 8 bits on to paper. Modern ones succeed sufficiently well for us not to notice the losses..

If a printer actually accepts 16 bit files, it will merely take the initiative, also some time, and convert them to 8 bit before printing starts..

In addition, I know of no monitor that works in 16 bit, either.Regards,Baz..

Comment #14

Bayamon wrote:.

The overall reason I asked this question is because I recently hadsome pictures enlarged (8x12). When I picked them up I noticed theylacked the "pop" that they had on my monitor..

Images printed on paper lack the brightness range of back-illuminated ones, and this is the reason prints always appear less punchy than the light source that is your monitor screen..

This was the main reason why many photographers preferred to shoot slides, and never did much print film shooting. It is also behind the thinking that uses the back-illuminated advertising hoardings we see so often these days..

This all predates photography, and by hundreds of years. From medieval times, stained glass windows always looked much more impressive than the humble frescoes beside them..... Regards,Baz..

Comment #15

Click Here to View All...

Sponsored Amazon Deals:

1. Get big savings on Amazon warehouse deals.
2. Save up to 70% on Amazon Products.


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

Categories: Home | Diet & Weight Management | Vitamins & Supplements | Herbs & Cleansing |

Sexual Health | Medifast Support | Nutrisystem Support | Medifast Questions |

Web Hosting | Web Hosts | Website Hosting | Hosting |

Web Hosting | GoDaddy | Digital Cameras | Best WebHosts |

Web Hosting FAQ | Web Hosts FAQ | Hosting FAQ | Hosting Group |

Hosting Questions | Camera Tips | Best Cameras To Buy | Best Cameras This Year |

Camera Q-A | Digital Cameras Q-A | Camera Forum | Nov 2010 - Cameras |

Oct 2010 - Cameras | Oct 2010 - DSLRs | Oct 2010 - Camera Tips | Sep 2010 - Cameras |

Sep 2010 - DSLRS | Sep 2010 - Camera Tips | Aug 2010 - Cameras | Aug 2010 - DSLR Tips |

Aug 2010 - Camera Tips | July 2010 - Cameras | July 2010 - Nikon Cameras | July 2010 - Canon Cameras |

July 2010 - Pentax Cameras | Medifast Recipes | Medifast Recipes Tips | Medifast Recipes Strategies |

Medifast Recipes Experiences | Medifast Recipes Group | Medifast Recipes Forum | Medifast Support Strategies |

Medifast Support Experiences |

 

(C) Copyright 2010 All rights reserved.