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FZ-18, S5IS or ?-My Priorities
Like many, I am looking at the superzoom cameras. I have decided against a dslr for many reasons, and I have read too much already about the downsides of the superzooms. My issue is whether the low light issues are a concern with my use of the camera..

We are taking a cruise in Alaska in 2 weeks. Virutally all of my use will be outdoors, and distance to the subject matter may be significant-whale watching, bears on the shore, sheep on a cliff. This is why the Panasonic FZ18 appeals to me. I have read about the low light issues with noise, but as a novice, I am not "very" familiar with ISO settings. If I am shooting on an overcast day, will I notice any problems or is it more of an issue when shooting indoors with a high ISO setting using natural light? Am I correct the the use of a higher ISO setting is to allow more light into the camera, allowing the shot to be taken without a flash?.

Thanks for the help. We have a Canon SD600 and an older Olympus that we are happy with but the zoom is not adequate for the trip...

Comments (39)

The truth is that a superzoom won't be any worse on dull days than the little Canon you already have..

Either of the ones you've chosen at least have plenty of manual controls for you to get the best out of them in poor conditions..

It's really a matter of getting the exposure right to avoid noise when it's dull or dark, and the Panasonic may help you out more with it's live histogram and raw mode for tricky conditions (not sure if the Canon has a live histogram (don't think so but could be wrong) - it sure is a useful thing to have)..

Neither will be great at ISO settings higher than 200, but you might get away with ISO400 if you don't underexpose the shots..

Androohttp://Androo.smugmug.com..

Comment #1

Thanks Andrew. Keep in mind I am a novice. On a typical overcast day, is there generally a need to use an ISO setting higher than 200?..

Comment #2

No, unless you are shooting moving subject. Normally you can use Aperture priority mode. Then the camera will choose appropriate shutter speed for correct exposure at the ISO you choose. Image-stabilization feature will be of additional help..

High ISO will normally be required for freezing action in marginal light. Or shooting hand held in very low light..

I would advise you to choose either Nikon P80 (for wide angle) or Canon S5IS (if you need a camcorder and camera rolled into one) for better IQ in auto mode..

Jam69 wrote:.

On a typical overcastday, is there generally a need to use an ISO setting higher than 200?.

Best Wishes, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612Thanks for your time...

Comment #3

The FZ18 is an excellent superzoom camera that will give you incredible results on an Alaska cruise. Image stabilization will help with shots from the boat, and although the FZ18 is known for it's incredible 18x zoom, keep in mind that it also starts out at a respectable 28mm which will allow you to take some very nice relatively wideangle scenic shots as well..

As for worrying about ISO and other more manual controls, I wouldn't worry about it. Just put the camera in full auto or P modes, frame, and shoot. If you're worried about auto or P mode automatically using too high of an ISO setting, just set the ISO at the lowest setting, and then aperature, shutter, etc., will all be automatically adjusted to account for that. Honestly, that's the best way to get to know a camera prior to moving into the more manual modes. Play around with the camera in automatic modes, check the shot information to see what the camera automatically set itself to for a given environment or condition, and then remember for future use in more manual modes. I know it seems complicated at first, but you really will learn more about photography as time goes on.

I still more often than not use P mode on my Panasonic FZ50 (my primary camera), even after owning a DSLR for a while and several other cameras that offer full manual settings. There's a time and place for using manual controls, but a lot of the times with modern cameras it's easier and even better to use automatic modes..

I don't think you can go wrong with the FZ18. Good luck with your choice and your cruise. A couple of FZ18 owners took their FZ18 on trips to Alaska or even Antarctica and have posted the images on the Panasonic forum here on DPReview. If you search the Panasonic forum, make sure you spell Antarctica correctly (I left out the first C and couldn't find what I was looking for!)..

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Comment #4

Jam69 wrote:.

Like many, I am looking at the superzoom cameras. I have decidedagainst a dslr for many reasons, and I have read too much alreadyabout the downsides of the superzooms. My issue is whether the lowlight issues are a concern with my use of the camera..

We are taking a cruise in Alaska in 2 weeks. Virutally all of my usewill be outdoors, and distance to the subject matter may besignificant-whale watching, bears on the shore, sheep on a cliff.This is why the Panasonic FZ18 appeals to me. I have read about thelow light issues with noise, but as a novice, I am not "very"familiar with ISO settings. If I am shooting on an overcast day,will I notice any problems or is it more of an issue when shootingindoors with a high ISO setting using natural light? Am I correctthe the use of a higher ISO setting is to allow more light into thecamera, allowing the shot to be taken without a flash?.

Thanks for the help. We have a Canon SD600 and an older Olympus thatwe are happy with but the zoom is not adequate for the trip..

The extra features, video, and superior IQ persuaded me to buy the Canon S5 over the Panasonic FZ18 but you should be satisfied with either camera.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/w-photos/full resolution Canon S5 video http://www.filefactory.com/file/8e57cf..

Comment #5

Both have a 1/2.5' sensor, how do you figure the s5 has noticeably superior iq?..

Comment #6

Pauw wrote:.

Both have a 1/2.5' sensor, how do you figure the s5 has noticeablysuperior iq?.

Do a search on flickr or any photo hosting website !.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/w-photos/full resolution Canon S5 video http://www.filefactory.com/file/8e57cf..

Comment #7

But the one from Panasonic FZ18 is made by Panasonic. A disastrous sensor. At ISO 100 you may not see any problems, though..

Shoot in RAW and don't apply any NR to Canon S5 and Panasonic FZ18 and you'll see the difference.But for small prints (4x6") this is irrelevant.VictorBucuresti, Romaniahttp://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/victor_petcu/http://picasaweb.google.com/teodor.nitica/..

Comment #8

Bw100-I followed your link over to Flickr and enjoyed viewing your photos. I found the groups for the S5is & FZ18 but I did not find a direct comparison. Realizing which camera you use, do you honestly feel there is a significant difference between the image quality of the 2? I am leaning towards the FZ18 because of the higher zoom as many of my pictures will be taken from a distance. Keep in mind that we love our Canon SD600 so it's not a brand issue...

Comment #9

Bw100 wrote:.

The extra features, video, and superior IQ persuaded me to buy theCanon S5 over the Panasonic FZ18 but you should be satisfied witheither camera.

Hmmm...everyone likes to justify their respective purchases, but other than the superior video feature of the S5, I don't think your other descriptive terms apply..

Other than a better movie mode, the FZ18 seems to be better featured in just about every aspect. As for IQ, the S5 was reviewed as actually being a downgrade in IQ from the S3, and has severe CA and fringing issues, and noise or NR artifact problems starting at ISO 100..

To be fair, just about all small superzooms are noise machines, but some are better than others. The FZ18 is reviewed as useful up to 400 ISO. Whereas the S5 reviews typically complain about noise or NR artifacts at 100 ISO..

Unless you're looking for an excellent video mode, the FZ18 would probably be the more useful camera, especially with starting at 28mm wide and going 18x from there..

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Comment #10

Baloo_buc wrote:.

But the one from Panasonic FZ18 is made by Panasonic. A disastroussensor. At ISO 100 you may not see any problems, though.Shoot in RAW and don't apply any NR to Canon S5 and Panasonic FZ18and you'll see the difference.But for small prints (4x6") this is irrelevant..

It's all more irrelevant than you think since neither the S5 nor the FZ18 can shoot in RAW, so we'll never know which offers the sensor with more noise. It all falls back to the image processing engine, and considering that the S5 is reviewed as being noisey with NR artifacts at ISO 100 whereas the FZ18 is reviewed as being useful up to ISO 400, I think we'd have to say that the Panasonic imaging engine wins that contest..

Don't confuse DSLR sensors with P&S sensors Panasonic is pretty much top of the heap in non-DSLR sensors, and they must be pretty good with DSLR sensors, too, since the entire 4/3rds format is using Panasonic sensors now instead of Kodak (like they originally were). Everyone gives Panasonic P&S sensors a bad rap because they're usually in superzoom/bridge cameras, so everyone compares them to DSLR sensors, which really isn't fair. Compare superzoom to superzoom, bridge to bridge, and see which one does better..

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Comment #11

Actually the FZ18 can shoot in RAW (although I have no idea what that really means)...

Comment #12

Both can shoot in RAW. Indeed Canon S5 with a small program installed on the SD card while Panasonic from the factory..

You will see a huge difference between them. Both are noisy but ISO100 of Panasonic without NR looks better than ISO800 and worse than ISO400 of Canon.VictorBucuresti, Romaniahttp://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/victor_petcu/http://picasaweb.google.com/teodor.nitica/..

Comment #13

With samples?.

Judging from the jpeg samples coming from the S5, there's atleast as much noise in the RAW files from that camera, as from RAW files coming from the FZ18...

Comment #14

Baloo_buc wrote:.

Both can shoot in RAW. Indeed Canon S5 with a small program installedon the SD card while Panasonic from the factory.You will see a huge difference between them. Both are noisy butISO100 of Panasonic without NR looks better than ISO800 and worsethan ISO400 of Canon..

I guess that goes to show what you can believe/trust from reviews. One of the cons in the S5 review is that it does not shoot RAW, although from what you say about a "small program installed on the SD card" sounds like a kludge fix rather than a feature. The reviews only list the FZ18 as shooting JPEG or motion JPEG under file format..

Makes you wonder what else one can believe (or not) from reviews..

I know my FZ50 can shoot RAW, and does a good job of it and JPEG despite it's "horrible" Panasonic sensor..

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Comment #15

JortS29 wrote:.

With samples?.

Judging from the jpeg samples coming from the S5, there's atleast asmuch noise in the RAW files from that camera, as from RAW filescoming from the FZ18..

Don't forget about the CA and fringe that you get for free with every S5 you buy as well...haha. If anyone wants samples of that, just search for any S5 review and view the pics. It's there in all it's glory..

I don't know what happend to the S5 the S3 was a great camera, and everyone expected the S5 to even build further on the S3's merits. Some consider it a downgrade from the S3..

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Comment #16

Baloo_buc wrote:.

Both can shoot in RAW. Indeed Canon S5 with a small program installedon the SD card while Panasonic from the factory.You will see a huge difference between them. Both are noisy butISO100 of Panasonic without NR looks better than ISO800 and worsethan ISO400 of Canon..

Is that before or after you have to post-process all the CA and fringe out of the S5's images?.

I doubt that the vast majority of FZ18 owners would use RAW anyway, but I think that once again that says a lot for the Panasonic image engine and optics when the JPEG's look so much better than the S5's that to beat the Panasonic a S5 owner would have to resort to the inconvenience of RAW..

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Comment #17

Jam69 wrote:.

Actually the FZ18 can shoot in RAW (although I have no idea what thatreally means)..

DPReview's feature list doesn't seem to mention RAW. Oh, well...that's what I get for trusting reviews......

I stand corrected..

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Comment #18

Effzeeone wrote:.

Baloo_buc wrote:.

Both can shoot in RAW. Indeed Canon S5 with a small program installedon the SD card while Panasonic from the factory.You will see a huge difference between them. Both are noisy butISO100 of Panasonic without NR looks better than ISO800 and worsethan ISO400 of Canon..

Is that before or after you have to post-process all the CA andfringe out of the S5's images?.

I doubt that the vast majority of FZ18 owners would use RAW anyway,but I think that once again that says a lot for the Panasonic imageengine and optics when the JPEG's look so much better than the S5'sthat to beat the Panasonic a S5 owner would have to resort to theinconvenience of RAW..

Actually many users such as in the flickr groups say the Canon S5 beats the Panasonic FZ18 in image quality and other features but if you're just buying it to take along a cruise it probably doesn't matter anyway.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/w-photos/full resolution Canon S5 video http://www.filefactory.com/file/8e57cf..

Comment #19

What a whining match!! This is as good as the Yamaha versus Evinrude squabbles on my offshore fishing forums!!.

To get back to my needs, I have never edited a picture, although my daughter has. I hate for this to become part of my decision, but I leave in 2 weeks so time is of the essence. I am leaning towards the Canon S5is mainly because it is available locally at a great price..

The shot below was taken with an old Olympus Stylus 300 and the overall quality is fine with me!.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window..

Comment #20

Jam69 wrote:.

What a whining match!! This is as good as the Yamaha versus Evinrudesquabbles on my offshore fishing forums!!.

To get back to my needs, I have never edited a picture, although mydaughter has. I hate for this to become part of my decision, but Ileave in 2 weeks so time is of the essence. I am leaning towards theCanon S5is mainly because it is available locally at a great price..

The shot below was taken with an old Olympus Stylus 300 and theoverall quality is fine with me!.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Well then you're one of the millions that could give a whoop about RAW (and I include myself in with those millions except on very rare occasions)..

Either would probably do well for you, but imagine that same picture with an obvious purple glow around the entire edge of the white boat and maybe the bottom of the fish. That's called fringing and something the S5 excels at providing to you to the point that they should call it a feature because I can't believe Canon actually released it for sale with such a glaringly obvious photographical issue..

If you can live with that, then buy the S5. Otherwise, I highly recommend ordering the FZ18 now so it can arrive before you leave in two weeks..

Haha..

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Comment #21

Effzeeone wrote:.

Jam69 wrote:.

What a whining match!! This is as good as the Yamaha versus Evinrudesquabbles on my offshore fishing forums!!.

To get back to my needs, I have never edited a picture, although mydaughter has. I hate for this to become part of my decision, but Ileave in 2 weeks so time is of the essence. I am leaning towards theCanon S5is mainly because it is available locally at a great price..

The shot below was taken with an old Olympus Stylus 300 and theoverall quality is fine with me!.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Well then you're one of the millions that could give a whoop aboutRAW (and I include myself in with those millions except on very rareoccasions)..

Either would probably do well for you, but imagine that same picturewith an obvious purple glow around the entire edge of the white boatand maybe the bottom of the fish. That's called fringing andsomething the S5 excels at providing to you to the point that theyshould call it a feature because I can't believe Canon actuallyreleased it for sale with such a glaringly obvious photographicalissue..

If you can live with that, then buy the S5. Otherwise, I highlyrecommend ordering the FZ18 now so it can arrive before you leave intwo weeks..

Haha..

All I have to say is go to a photo site like Flickr, search Canon S5 and search FZ18 and see for yourself - people who use the cameras and produce the picsit is well known the S5 has better image quality and other features such as flash hot shoe and the CHDK functions - 1/33,000 shutter speed, smaller aperture, RAW, etc.http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_in_Brief.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/w-photos/full resolution Canon S5 video http://www.filefactory.com/file/8e57cf..

Comment #22

Bw100 wrote:.

All I have to say is go to a photo site like Flickr, search Canon S5and search FZ18 and see for yourself - people who use the cameras andproduce the picsit is well known the S5 has better image qualityand other features such as flash hot shoe and the CHDK functions -1/33,000 shutter speed, smaller aperture, RAW, etc.http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_in_Brief.

All I have to say is read the professional, as well as user reviews all of them complain about chromatic aberations and purple fringing. That doesn't sound like better IQ to me. You can't just say it's "well known" well known by whom? Not by me through any of the reviews I've read..

I'll give you the flash hotshoe (one of the reasons I bought the FZ50 over the FZ18), but this is the first time I've ever heard of CHDK. As a career network engineer, I'd have to say that it sounds nothing short of a firmware hack. The fact that Canon has turned over such basic features/functions as RAW mode to 3rd-party, freeware hackers I believe says it all about their entire Powershot line of cameras. Not only do you have to worry about problem software on your computer, you now have to worry about possible problem software on your camera? Most people already don't trust firmware updates from the manufacturers, and now you have to trust firmware hacks from 3rd-party developers/hackers in order to get more features out of your camera that clearly should've been there in the first place? That's the only way to get RAW? C'mon...how can CHDK possibly be viewed as good thing by anyone who wasn't suckered into buying an obviously under-featured Canon camera? Why would that be a selling point instead of a design weakness? And 1/33,000 shutter? Are you taking pictures of the sun or....?.

Keep posting though you're convincing me to never buy a Canon. Hopefully, you're doing the same to the OP and anyone else reading this thread..

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Comment #23

Effzeeone wrote:.

Bw100 wrote:.

All I have to say is go to a photo site like Flickr, search Canon S5and search FZ18 and see for yourself - people who use the cameras andproduce the picsit is well known the S5 has better image qualityand other features such as flash hot shoe and the CHDK functions -1/33,000 shutter speed, smaller aperture, RAW, etc.http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_in_Brief.

I'll give you the flash hotshoe (one of the reasons I bought the FZ50over the FZ18), but this is the first time I've ever heard of CHDK.As a career network engineer, I'd have to say that it sounds nothingshort of a firmware hack. The fact that Canon has turned over suchbasic features/functions as RAW mode to 3rd-party, freeware hackers Ibelieve says it all about their entire Powershot line of cameras..

Keep posting though you're convincing me to never buy a Canon.Hopefully, you're doing the same to the OP and anyone else readingthis thread..

If you don't know it's not my fault ! the CHDK programs are run separately on the SD card, not the firmware..

But my point is go to Flickr or any photo site, look at the pics and discussion groups, do a search on features or image quality or whatever, Canon S5 comes out looking better and better .... but don't blame me !.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/w-photos/full resolution Canon S5 video http://www.filefactory.com/file/8e57cf..

Comment #24

Unfortunately I don't have anymore the RAW files neither from Panny nor Canon. I made that comparison for a friend of mine. In the end she took Panny FZ18. She never prints over 10x15 cm so that's not an issue and she liked more 28 mm than 36 mm..

If you like I will present a Canon S3 sample of ISO100 and ISO400 without any NR.VictorBucuresti, Romaniahttp://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/victor_petcu/http://picasaweb.google.com/teodor.nitica/..

Comment #25

He will always buy Panasonic cameras so he will fight for his choice. It's normal..

He will probably buy a four thirds dSLR from Panasonic since he thinks that is the best choice..

Personal taste. I would never get accustomed with the Panny colors (too cold). Their cameras are interesting but not thrilling..

Now that Sony stuffed more pixels in the same area Panasonic doesn't seem so awful anymore. But when Pansonic FZ7 was fighting with Sony H5 and Canon S3 the difference was more obvious.He paid a little fortune for FZ50 so he should be satisfied of this camera.VictorBucuresti, Romaniahttp://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/victor_petcu/http://picasaweb.google.com/teodor.nitica/..

Comment #26

..to see what that sensor does in RAW, so please..

I still use a Sony H2 with that 6MP sensor too. Wish there was a similar "firmware hack" to provide RAW...

Comment #27

Baloo_buc wrote:.

Unfortunately I don't have anymore the RAW files neither from Pannynor Canon. I made that comparison for a friend of mine. In the endshe took Panny FZ18. She never prints over 10x15 cm so that's not anissue and she liked more 28 mm than 36 mm.If you like I will present a Canon S3 sample of ISO100 and ISO400without any NR..

Obvious question (at least in my opinion): Why did you keep the S3 but not the S5 if it's such a great camera? Like I said previously, most in the Canon forum were advising me to buy a S3 while I still could and forget about the S5. Why don't you have a S5?.

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Comment #28

Bw100 wrote:.

If you don't know it's not my fault ! the CHDK programs are runseparately on the SD card, not the firmware.but my point is go to Flickr or any photo site, look at the pics anddiscussion groups, do a search on features or image quality orwhatever, Canon S5 comes out looking better and better .... butdon't blame me !.

You misunderstood me it's the first I've heard of CHDK because it's not something that Canon probably brags about because it's a hack. I imagine that running the apps separately on the SD card makes camera startup slower, as well as not very reliable since it's not part of the firmware. It just doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but maybe I only feel that way because no other reputable camera company has seen the need to provide additional basic features this way. Maybe Canon is a maverick (of bad ideas, but still a maverick)..

For every great image that you find taken with a Canon S5, I can find a better one taken with the FZ18 if for no other reason than the Panasonic attracts photography enthusiasts, whereas the S5 seems to mostly attract parents and grandparents taking happy snaps of the kids at the school play. That's not intended to be an insult to owners of the S5, but an insult to the feature set you get right out of the box. All it can do is happy snaps and really good video, unless you want to use the CHDK hack to give it the basic features necessary to serve as an enthusiast's camera. Panasonic makes some happy snap cameras, too, but I don't try to pass them off as great cameras outside of their intended purpose of party shots and family get-togethers..

Sorry, but saying, "check Flickr" isn't convincing anyone of anything. How about check the respective DPReview forums where owners of the cameras are discussing hardware issues with these cameras. Do your own poll with the search feature see how many people encountered CA and PF in their Canon S5's versus how many people encountered the infamous "Blue Banding" issue with the FZ18. The blue banding is an admitted flaw in some production FZ18 cameras. Panasonic's solution? No, they didn't release a firmware hack. You have to send the camera back to the manufacturer, where hardware is replaced/corrected and a new firmware update is installed, which is much more of a true, permanent solution than just running a hack application every time you turn on your camera.



If you want to prove me wrong (good luck, because I'm not wrong), then you're going to have to do the leg work. I have no interest in surfing Flickr (a site a I've probably been to once and then by accident) looking for good pictures taken by the S5 and consider it an exercise in futility. I already know all I need to know about the S5 it's an inferior camera model to the S3 in terms of IQ, and it requires 3rd-party software hacks to get enable such basic features as RAW, which among other things makes it inferior to the FZ18 competition..

I am so glad my interest in the S5 didn't go beyond the initial research stage when it first came out!.

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Comment #29

Baloo_buc wrote:.

He will always buy Panasonic cameras so he will fight for his choice.It's normal..

I've owned Kodak, Minolta, Sony, Olympus, and Panasonic cameras, so implying that my current camera choice is zealot-based just shows that you know nothing about me. And since when did this become a thread about me instead of about cameras? Please keep it on-topic..

He will probably buy a four thirds dSLR from Panasonic since hethinks that is the best choice..

I already bought an Olympus 4/3rds DSLR. The Panasonic DSLR choices are ridiculously overpriced. Oops there goes your Panasonic zealot theory out the window...!.

Personal taste. I would never get accustomed with the Panny colors(too cold). Their cameras are interesting but not thrilling.Now that Sony stuffed more pixels in the same area Panasonic doesn'tseem so awful anymore. But when Pansonic FZ7 was fighting with SonyH5 and Canon S3 the difference was more obvious..

The S3 was a very nice camera I won't argue that. But the S5 is a very different and inferior camera, even when compared to the S3, and that's something that most Canon zealots will even admit..

Sony abandoned the superzoom arena with the last of it's Mavica FD9X line. When the decided that was a mistake due to loss of market share, they came back late in the game with the H series. The first entries in the H series were miserable failures that got very bad reviews. It took all the way to a H5 to come up with anything decent, which is ridiculous considering Sony used to be the king of the superzoom cameras. Now look at them. They're not worth the cost of buying their proprietary memory cards to use them.



The FZ7 is out of production, as is the S3 and (I believe) the H5. So why are we talking about these cameras? Is it because the current offerings from Sony and Canon can't even hold water compared to their own older models? Why not compare latest models with latest models?.

Again, back on-topic, let's compare the FZ18 to the S5 and even the latest offering from the Sony H series (whatever that is I don't keep track of Sony anymore). Heck, let's throw in the Nikon P80, too. The FZ18 is repeatedly reviewed as best small superzoom on the market today..

He paid a little fortune for FZ50 so he should be satisfied of thiscamera..

$412 new shipped to my home in December 2007 from Amazon.com is "a fortune"? I guess it's all relative, but let's see...Amazon.com currently lists the S5 for $329 (note that's 7 months later, which is a long time in the digicam market). The S5 and FZ50 are two different classes of camera with the FZ50 being a class higher...and all for only about $80 more. So who paying "a fortune" for the camera? Back in December 2007, the S5 was a lot closer to the $400 mark, making the price/feature comparison even more ridiculous..

Again, I believe you mentioned earlier in this thread that you can no longer provide S5 samples why don't you own a S5 if it's such a great camera that you feel the need to defend it so avidly? From the way you write, I suspect you own a S3...why didn't you upgrade to allegedly superior S5?.

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Comment #30

Effzeeone wrote:.

Baloo_buc wrote:.

He will always buy Panasonic cameras so he will fight for his choice.It's normal..

I've owned Kodak, Minolta, Sony, Olympus, and Panasonic cameras, soimplying that my current camera choice is zealot-based just showsthat you know nothing about me. And since when did this become athread about me instead of about cameras? Please keep it on-topic..

He will probably buy a four thirds dSLR from Panasonic since hethinks that is the best choice..

I already bought an Olympus 4/3rds DSLR. The Panasonic DSLR choicesare ridiculously overpriced. Oops there goes your Panasoniczealot theory out the window...!.

Personal taste. I would never get accustomed with the Panny colors(too cold). Their cameras are interesting but not thrilling.Now that Sony stuffed more pixels in the same area Panasonic doesn'tseem so awful anymore. But when Pansonic FZ7 was fighting with SonyH5 and Canon S3 the difference was more obvious..

The FZ7 is out of production, as is the S3 and (I believe) the H5.So why are we talking about these cameras? Is it because the currentofferings from Sony and Canon can't even hold water compared to theirown older models? Why not compare latest models with latest models?.

Again, back on-topic, let's compare the FZ18 to the S5 and even thelatest offering from the Sony H series (whatever that is I don'tkeep track of Sony anymore). Heck, let's throw in the Nikon P80,too. The FZ18 is repeatedly reviewed as best small superzoom on themarket today..

He paid a little fortune for FZ50 so he should be satisfied of thiscamera..

$412 new shipped to my home in December 2007 from Amazon.com is "afortune"? I guess it's all relative, but let's see...Amazon.comcurrently lists the S5 for $329 (note that's 7 months later, which isa long time in the digicam market). The S5 and FZ50 are twodifferent classes of camera with the FZ50 being a class higher...andall for only about $80 more. So who paying "a fortune" for thecamera? Back in December 2007, the S5 was a lot closer to the $400mark, making the price/feature comparison even more ridiculous..

Again, I believe you mentioned earlier in this thread that you can nolonger provide S5 samples why don't you own a S5 if it's such agreat camera that you feel the need to defend it so avidly? From theway you write, I suspect you own a S3...why didn't you upgrade toallegedly superior S5?.

Look, if you're not knowledgeable about the cameras just admit it. The Canon S5 has an improved sensor chip, more MP, more features, etc. 000's millions?) of users. It can shoot RAW, time-lapse, remote shutter, zoom & super macro, etc. Superb pictures you can see for yourself on the photo hosting websitesALL for less than $300 !!get with it bro' !.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/w-photos/full resolution Canon S5 video http://www.filefactory.com/file/8e57cf..

Comment #31

Effzeeone wrote:.

Bw100 wrote:.

If you don't know it's not my fault ! the CHDK programs are runseparately on the SD card, not the firmware.but my point is go to Flickr or any photo site, look at the pics anddiscussion groups, do a search on features or image quality orwhatever, Canon S5 comes out looking better and better .... butdon't blame me !.

You misunderstood me it's the first I've heard of CHDK becauseit's not something that Canon probably brags about because it's ahack. I imagine that running the apps separately on the SD cardmakes camera startup slower, as well as not very reliable since it'snot part of the firmware. It just doesn't sound like a good idea tome, but maybe I only feel that way because no other reputable cameracompany has seen the need to provide additional basic features thisway. Maybe Canon is a maverick (of bad ideas, but still a maverick).owners of the S5, but an insult to the feature set you get right outof the box. All it can do is happy snaps and really good video,unless you want to use the CHDK hack to give it the basic featuresnecessary to serve as an enthusiast's camera. Panasonic makes some.

Sorry, there are millions who would dispute your knowledge of the Panasonic Fz18 !.

If you're not knowledgeable about the cameras just admit it. The Canon S5 has an improved sensor chip, more MP, more features, etc. 000's millions?) of users. It can shoot RAW, time-lapse, remote shutter, zoom & super macro, etc. Superb pictures you can see for yourself on the photo hosting websitesALL for less than $300 !!http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_in_Brief.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/w-photos/full resolution Canon S5 video http://www.filefactory.com/file/8e57cf..

Comment #32

Bw100 wrote:.

Look, if you're not knowledgeable about the cameras just admit it.The Canon S5 has an improved sensor chip, more MP, more features,etc. 000's millions?) of users. It can shoot RAW, time-lapse,remote shutter, zoom & super macro, etc. Superb pictures you cansee for yourself on the photo hosting websitesALL for less than$300 !!get with it bro' !.

I am "with it", which is why I bought the FZ50 without even considering the S5 after about 30 mins. of initial research. More than half of the features you listed only come with a 3rd-party firmware hack. No thanks I prefer for my camera features to come from the factory, designed by engineers instead of 14-year-old hackers who think it sounds cool to give the S5 a 1/500,000th of a second shutter speed that's completely useless in the real world..

If buying an underfeatured camera is your thing, then good luck with that..

Haha..

ChrisEffzeeone now has a Effzeefifty!(Gear in profile)..

Comment #33

Bw100 wrote:.

Sorry, there are millions who would dispute your knowledge of thePanasonic Fz18 !if you're not knowledgeable about the cameras just admit it. TheCanon S5 has an improved sensor chip, more MP, more features, etc.000's millions?) of users. It can shoot RAW, time-lapse, remoteshutter, zoom & super macro, etc. Superb pictures you can see foryourself on the photo hosting websitesALL for less than $300 !!http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_in_Brief.

Uh...didn't you already write all this factless, zealot rhetoric in a post just a little higher up the thread?.

Of course it's less than $300 it doesn't come with most of the features you listed...you have to add them later via a hack..

ChrisEffzeeone now has a Effzeefifty!(Gear in profile)..

Comment #34

Effzeeone wrote:.

Bw100 wrote:.

Look, if you're not knowledgeable about the cameras just admit it.The Canon S5 has an improved sensor chip, more MP, more features,etc. 000's millions?) of users. It can shoot RAW, time-lapse,remote shutter, zoom & super macro, etc. Superb pictures you cansee for yourself on the photo hosting websitesALL for less than$300 !!get with it bro' !.

I am "with it",firmware hack. No thanks I prefer for my camera features to comefrom the factory, designed by engineers instead of 14-year-oldHaha..

Hey 'bro,.

Don't blame me or get bummed out because the Canon S5 runs circles around your girly cam! with a flash hot shoe, RAW mode, better picture IQ, CHDK programs that extend the shutter and aperture functions WOW !.

I can't help you dude !http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_in_Brief.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/w-photos/full resolution Canon S5 video http://www.filefactory.com/file/8e57cf..

Comment #35

Effzeeone wrote:.

Bw100 wrote:.

Sorry, there are millions who would dispute your knowledge of thePanasonic Fz18 !if you're not knowledgeable about the cameras just admit it. TheCanon S5 has an improved sensor chip, more MP, more features, etc.000's millions?) of users. It can shoot RAW, time-lapse, remoteshutter, zoom & super macro, etc. Superb pictures you can see foryourself on the photo hosting websitesALL for less than $300 !!http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_in_Brie.

? it doesn't come with most of the.

Features you listed...you have to add them later via a separate program.

Don't blame me or get bummed out because the Canon S5 runs circles around your girly cam! with a flash hot shoe, better picture IQ, CHDK programs, etc. WOW !.

Even if you never use RAW mode or 1/33,000 shutter speed or remote or whatever....I can't help you dude !http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_in_Briefhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/w-photos/full resolution Canon S5 video http://www.filefactory.com/file/8e57cf..

Comment #36

Bw100 wrote:.

Don't blame me or get bummed out because the Canon S5 runs circlesaround your girly cam!.

Well, don't blame me because you cannot seem to practice proper grammer and punctuation skills..

"Girly cam"??? Have you seen the FZ50? The FZ50 makes the S5 look like a pocket camera..

I think I'll bow out of this now, since it's slowly becoming clear that I'm likely debating with a 14-year-old (judging by the content and grammer of your messages)..

ChrisEffzeeone now has a Effzeefifty!(Gear in profile)..

Comment #37

Bw100 wrote:.

Hey 'bro,don't blame me or get bummed out because the Canon S5 runs circlesaround your girly cam! with a flash hot shoe, RAW mode, betterpicture IQ, CHDK programs that extend the shutter and aperturefunctions WOW !.

I can't help you dude !http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_in_Brief.

Do you always double-post to the same thread with the exact same poorly constructed messages?.

ChrisEffzeeone now has a Effzeefifty!(Gear in profile)..

Comment #38

Jam69 wrote:.

What a whining match!! This is as good as the Yamaha versus Evinrudesquabbles on my offshore fishing forums!!.

Now you know why they need to have seperate forums here..

Honestly, for your needs, from what you've described, either would be fine. I would imagine the choice would come down to price and how the two cameras feel in your hands (not a small thing) rather than image quality. Samples show that both are capable of excellent results in the right conditions..

In DPR's reviews of the two cameras, last July they said the S5 "is probably, just, the pick of the super zoom bunch at this moment in time, because it offers reliable output, responsive performance and an impressive feature set in an attractive, easy to use package that makes photography fun; not because it offers better IQ."Four months later they wrote that the Panasonic FZ18:.

"If you can live with the compromises that such a camera inevitably comes with (and you mainly shoot in daylight), you will get a lot out of using it, even if it's your first 'serious' camera. On this basis we think it's safe to say that the FZ18 - which is certainly the best of the 'really big' zoom cameras we've tried so far - easily offers enough to earn a Recommended rating, even if overall the IQ doesn't rate our highest honor.".

FWIW I don't own cameras from either manufacturer, although I used to own a Canon G7, and was very pleased with it's output...

Comment #39

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