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E510 or 400D ?
Hi,I like both cameras but want to have live view..

Looks like Olympus gives more for the money, but is image quality the same in bothproviding that we're talking about kit lenses?thanks..

Comments (13)

I know, but it will be available in May and too expensive for amateur like me.E510 has 2 set of lenses which I heard are very good...

Comment #1

Hi,I like both cameras but want to have live view.Looks like Olympus gives more for the money, but is image quality thesame in bothproviding that we're talking about kit lenses?thanks.

Well, there's a good question!.

The Olympus has a smaller sensor than the Canon, about 60% of the size. This results inevitably in slightly lower image quality: since the sensor is collecting less light to start with, the signal has to be amplified more with a consequent increase in noise..

That's the (correct) theory: whether the difference is of real-world significance outside lab tests depends on the individual. Pixel-peepers (or, more fairly, those with a high demand for best possible image quality) would say that yes, the difference is significant - especially at high ISO lettings in low light - and go for the larger sensors of the Canon (or Nikon, or pentax, or Sony) DSLRs. In contrast, someone moving up from a compact would probably be delighted with the image quality of the Oly sensor, and unless you plan to make big enlargements and look at them with a magnifying glass the image quality is just fine, as attested to by many happy users..

Two other issues to bear in mind....

1. The Oly Zuiko kit lens is much better than the much-derided Canon 18-55 kit lens that comes with the 400D. the camera is fine but the lens it comes with is universally regarded as the poorest of the kit lenses by some distance. So the Olympus will give better image quality in that respect, unless you get the Canon body only and get a better lens..

2. The smaller sensor of the Olympus has a subtle side-effect. Since the camera uses shorter focal length lenses to generate the same size field of view (the Oly kit lens is 14-42mm, compared to 18-55 on the Canon), depth of field will always be greater. portrait photgrphaers won't like this as it makes it harder to get a narrow depth-of-field and throw the background out of focus on the Olympus comapred to the larger-sensor cameras. So you won;t find Olympus DSLR cameras in portrait studios. That may not bother you much: you can always open the lens up an extra stop to compensate..

If you want live view, and like the compact size of the Olympus, go for it. There are lots of happy Oly fans out there..

Best wishesMike..

Comment #2

I have the E-510 and I think it is a better camera than the XTi (400D) in many ways..

They both have their plusses and minuses over each other..

And.the E-510 is more bang for the buck right now..

However.don't put all of your hopes and dreams into live view!.

I've had my E-510 for five months and I have yet to use live view..

I know it (live view) has it's uses, but if you plan on doing all of your shots with the camera in front of you like a P&S camera..

Then you might be better off just getting a P&S camera..

J. D.Colorful Colorado.

From my E-510:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Remember.always keep your receipt, the box, and everything that came in it!..

Comment #3

Mike703 wrote:.

The Olympus has a smaller sensor than the Canon, about 60% of thesize. This results inevitably in slightly lower image quality: sincethe sensor is collecting less light to start with, the signal has tobe amplified more with a consequent increase in noise..

According to the web page of sensor sizes right here at dpreview:.

Http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/key=Sensor_Sizes.

The 4/3 sensor is 65% of the size of the APS-C sensor. Nitpicking? Not really. People make the Oly out to be tiny in comparison to Canon sensors, when there isn't such a big size difference. In comparison, the typical 1/2.5 P&S sensor (a commons size these days) is 9.8% of the size of the 4/3 sensor..

So there's a HUGE increase in sensor size when you go from P&S to an Olympus DSLR, and only a relatively small increase in sensor size when you go from Olympus to a Canon APS-C sized sensor..

The Olympus system has telecentric lenses which allow for more light to hit the sensor, especially at the edges of the photo..

Furthermore, the Olympus has Image Stablization built into the camera body, while with Canon you only get it if you buy more expensive image stabilized lenses, so as a practical matter the Olympus has better low light capabilities than a Canon without IS lenses...

Comment #4

Calico Cat wrote:.

Mike703 wrote:.

The Olympus has a smaller sensor than the Canon, about 60% of thesize. This results inevitably in slightly lower image quality: sincethe sensor is collecting less light to start with, the signal has tobe amplified more with a consequent increase in noise..

According to the web page of sensor sizes right here at dpreview:.

Http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/key=Sensor_Sizes.

The 4/3 sensor is 65% of the size of the APS-C sensor. Nitpicking?Not really..

65% is 'about 60%'. Yes, that is nitpicking..

People make the Oly out to be tiny in comparison to Canonsensors, when there isn't such a big size difference. In comparison,the typical 1/2.5 P&S sensor (a commons size these days) is 9.8% ofthe size of the 4/3 sensor..

So there's a HUGE increase in sensor size when you go from P&S to anOlympus DSLR, and only a relatively small increase in sensor sizewhen you go from Olympus to a Canon APS-C sized sensor..

You didn't finish reading my post. I also wrote:.

'That's the (correct) theory: whether the difference is of real-world significance outside lab tests depends on the individual.... someone moving up from a compact would probably be delighted with the image quality of the Oly sensor, and unless you plan to make big enlargements and look at them with a magnifying glass the image quality is just fine, as attested to by many happy users.'.

Mike..

Comment #5

Mike703 wrote:.

'That's the (correct) theory: whether the difference is of real-worldsignificance outside lab tests depends on the individual.... someonemoving up from a compact would probably be delighted with the imagequality of the Oly sensor, and unless you plan to make bigenlargements and look at them with a magnifying glass the imagequality is just fine, as attested to by many happy users.'.

There's still the implication, there, that a bigger sensor will produce better quality that you can see with a "magnifying glass.".

The quality of the lens is going to be more relevant here, and the kit lens isn't going to cut it. Olympus offers a pro-quality 14-54mm F2.8-3.5 lens, which is equivalent to 28-108mm on a 35mm camera, and it sells for under $425 at street prices...

Comment #6

Calico Cat wrote:.

Mike703 wrote:.

'That's the (correct) theory: whether the difference is of real-worldsignificance outside lab tests depends on the individual.... someonemoving up from a compact would probably be delighted with the imagequality of the Oly sensor, and unless you plan to make bigenlargements and look at them with a magnifying glass the imagequality is just fine, as attested to by many happy users.'.

There's still the implication, there, that a bigger sensor willproduce better quality that you can see with a "magnifying glass.".

It will, and it does. Look at the comparison on this site between the E-510 and the Canon 400D at ISO 1600. There is (must be) a difference in image quality associated with sensor size - that's basic physics. How much that matters depends on the user..

The quality of the lens is going to be more relevant here, and thekit lens isn't going to cut it. Olympus offers a pro-quality 14-54mmF2.8-3.5 lens, which is equivalent to 28-108mm on a 35mm camera, andit sells for under $425 at street prices..

Er, yes, that's exactly what I said. For the second time of asking... please read my first post properly..

'The Oly Zuiko kit lens is much better than the much-derided Canon 18-55 kit lens that comes with the 400D. the camera is fine but the lens it comes with is universally regarded as the poorest of the kit lenses by some distance. So the Olympus will give better image quality in that respect, unless you get the Canon body only and get a better lens.'.

Mike..

Comment #7

The new Canon 18-55 IS kit lens is much better than the old non-IS kit lens..

It will be packaged with the new Canon XSi (450D)!.

J. D.Colorful Colorado.

Remember.always keep your receipt, the box, and everything that came in it!..

Comment #8

Simple answers to your question..

ANY DSLR on the market now will produce good images. I repeat ANY. ALL will produce images FAR superior to ANY P & S. So it's a matter of degree and taste..

The canon...with comparable quality lenses and ability of the photographer will produce images with less noise in low light. The camera will focus better in low light. It's just a fact and I have an Oly AND I like the Oly..

The Olympus is a MUCH better value for the $$. It will still produce good shots in low light AFTER processing. It has many more features then the Canon. In Camera IS is a hugh difference. Oly also recently updated their firmware so the IS will work with manual lenses. The Oly kit lenses are probably the best available kit lenses in any DSLR kit and it is less expensive.



Personally I like the color output of the Oly better but again that is personal preference and it is only out of the camera. By that I mean that you can post process just about anything you want. (Forrest Gump did not really meet President Kennedy!!)..

So of the 2 cameras listed I would recommend the Oly for it's value and features. However, you need to handle both cameras, see what is comfortable in your hands. The photographer is the most important part of the photograph..

I have taken some test shots with the 510 and posted them. Please feel free to look..

Http://www.pbase.com/maddogmd11/tests.

MaddogOlympus E-510 and a bunch of stuff to hang on it...

Comment #9

From the dpreview samples:.

Olympus E-510 at ISO 1600:.

Http://www.dpreview.com/...ry/photo.aspx?gallery=olye510_samples&photo=32.

Canon 400D at ISO 1600:.

Http://www.dpreview.com/...oto.aspx?gallery=canoneos400d_samples&photo=44.

Unfortunately, the subject matters are hard to compare, but still, it's a good start..

I think the Canon has a somewhat better performance here, but it's hard to say if it's the SIZE of the sensor, or whether it's sensor quality, or whether there's some magical internal post-processing being done by Canon..

If you print out the Olympus shot at 8 x 10", I'm sure you'd find the output pretty good, and the noise only objectionable if you examine the photo very carefully...

Comment #10

You can maximize the quality of Olympus high ISO photos by setting the noise filter off, and doing noise reduction with a more sophisticated algorithm such as with NeatImage. NeatImage can auto-process an entire directory of pictures..

But then, one may ask, why bother if you can get a Canon whose JPEGs are better right out of the camera?.

Well, I might point out that the Canon 17-85mm F/4-5.6 IS lens is a whole F-stop slower than the Olympus 14-54mm F2.8-3.5 lens, but the Olympus costs $90 less and has better sharpness..

So, for less money, the E-510 at ISO 800 and the 14-54 lens will give you better results than the 400D at ISO 1600 and the 17-85 IS lens, and you still have the option to go to 1600 if you need to...

Comment #11

But on the other hand, if you plan to buy the Canon 17-55mm F2.8 IS lens for $929 (street price), you will get better low light performance from the Canon 400D..

Also, the Sigma 30mm F1.4 prime lens for $429 will make the Canon a powerful low-light camera, if you are into normal prime lenses...

Comment #12

Both are excellent cameras. But since the 400D will never have live view and it's something you want, go for the Olympus.'Nice pen, bet you write good stories with it.'..

Comment #13

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