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Different colours in web browser
Im using Vista 64 and Firefox. Pictures look darker and more reddish in Firefox. And this is almost exactly matches how my prints look..

Colours in PS and windows picture viewer are less saturated..

Whats up with that?..

Comments (14)

Let me add that I didnt pay much attention to this before, only saw it today..

What I did was to buy Spyder 3 Studio calibrator for monitor and printer. Proved to be pretty usless actually. The monitor was so good that I could hardly see any changes before/after while comparing sample sheet side by side (NEC MultiSync 2690). Printer was usless as well since prints done with build-in profile look exactly the same..

So thats 500 bucks and 2 hours of wasted time for ya..

Anyway... The thing is that I was fighting with my printer calibration (Epson 2400) which was giving consistently warmer colours to what was on my monitor in PS. They by chance I opened that image in Firefox and BINGO looks exactly like on the paper..

I thought maybe I messed colour profiles, but no success there. Default management in PS. And pictures look the same in Windows picture viewer as well!.

So I'm really lost here......

Comment #1

Latyshev wrote:.

Let me add that I didnt pay much attention to this before, only sawit today..

What I did was to buy Spyder 3 Studio calibrator for monitor andprinter. Proved to be pretty usless actually..

Disagree. It's useful to confirm your display system response..

The monitor was so goodthat I could hardly see any changes before/after while comparingsample sheet side by side (NEC MultiSync 2690). Printer was usless aswell since prints done with build-in profile look exactly the same..

What do you mean that your printer was useless? Would you prefer that results were different?.

So thats 500 bucks and 2 hours of wasted time for ya..

Disagree. See my previous comment. Besides, 2 hours is nothing for making sure you're managing colours right, and $500 may be more significant to you..

Anyway... The thing is that I was fighting with my printercalibration (Epson 2400) which was giving consistently warmer coloursto what was on my monitor in PS. They by chance I opened that imagein Firefox and BINGO looks exactly like on the paper..

What else were you using to view images on your monitor. Was it a colour managed app?.

I thought maybe I messed colour profiles, but no success there.Default management in PS. And pictures look the same in Windowspicture viewer as well!.

Viewing prints relies heavily on the viewing environment. they are likely to appear darker than on your monitor and the colour may be warmer, especially if you view using tungsten lighting with it's warmer colour than daylight..

So I'm really lost here.....

Cheers from John from Adelaide, South AustraliaJohn Harvey Photography http://johnharvey.com.auCanon 40D, Canon 20D & Fuji F10..

Comment #2

Ok, I do agree that it was worth it to make sure that colors are calibrated correctly....

Although I didnt quite understand your point about viewing equipment. What I said is that image is displayed correctly in web-browser, but incorrectly in photoshop and picture viewer... Could you explain to me why is that?..

Comment #3

I had a similar problem a while back. Colors in web browser (both ie and firefox) looked different than PS. However, my windows picture viewer also looked like the ie and firefox version..

I'm not sure if you are having the same problem I did, but it sounds close. I ended up resetting the color management profile under windows (not under PS). Changed it to profile srgb iec61966..

At that point they still looked different, but after restarting the system they all came up looking the same. Browser and picture viewer now looked like they did in PS...

Comment #4

Yep thats exactly that! Vista has a build in scheme for colour profiling. Reset that and all looks identical. Thanks!!!..

Comment #5

Latyshev wrote:.

Yep thats exactly that! Vista has a build in scheme for colourprofiling. Reset that and all looks identical. Thanks!!!.

Without wanting to sound negative, getting your non-colour aware viewer and Photoshop to show sRGB images exactly the same most likely means you've done something wrong. I expect you find this to be an odd statement..

Non-colour aware apps send the image RGB values straight to the display system without conversion for correct colour. Your monitor is unlikely to have exactly an sRGB response, although it may be close if you're lucky. Following calibration to set monitor settings and establish a tone response curve as part of profililng, that gets used when displaying images even in non-colour aware apps. However, there is no colour conversion to make sure colours are displayed correctly..

If you have Photoshop configured correctly and the correct colour profile being used by Windows, Photoshop should display sRGB (and other colour space) images correctly..

Setting your monitor profile to sRGB is the wrong thing to do. You're telling the system that your monitor response is exactly sRGB, so Photoshop will convert images for display to look right on a monitor that has an sRGB response. As your monitor actually has a different response that you cpatured when profiling it, Photoshop will be unwittingly showing you an innacurate display of your image..

If you don't colour manage properly, you won't be able to get accurate print colours and you won't be providing a standard image colours for others to potentially view in a colour managed environment, or even to a lesser degree with their non-colour managed web browsers..

Sing out if you want further clarification..

Cheers from John from Adelaide, South AustraliaJohn Harvey Photography http://johnharvey.com.auCanon 40D, Canon 20D & Fuji F10..

Comment #6

I would like more information on this. This whole color space thing confuses the heck out of me. All I know is when I viewed images on a different computer, they looked totally different than other computers I had viewed them on (web viewing). I am not the OP, but how does one go about making sure that what you save an image as looks the same over a wide range of viewing variables like other computers/web browsers?..

Comment #7

Latyshev wrote:.

Im using Vista 64 and Firefox. Pictures look darker and more reddishin Firefox. And this is almost exactly matches how my prints look..

Colours in PS and windows picture viewer are less saturated..

Whats up with that?.

You did screw up color management. What I can't tell you from that information is where..

Probably, SOMEHOW, your printing application is not color managed, exactly as firefox..

As a test you could download Safari for windows and view the images in Safari. If there is a difference from firefox, you'll have confirmation..

/d/n..

Comment #8

Steve Baird wrote:.

I would like more information on this. This whole color space thingconfuses the heck out of me..

It isn't very complicated. Well, it is, but you can reach a very good, workable understanding in no time..

Like analogies?.

Well, a color space is like the indication on a pair of headphones (or speakers). 10-20000 Hz. Of course, since in graphic display you have 3 (RGB, Lab) or 4 (CMYK) coordinates, it's a bit trickier.Most displays available approximate sRGB..

Color profiles pretty much equivalate the audio equalizer. You can tweak the output so it sounds as it's supposed to. Of course, it gets a bit more complicated, too. It's like saying: the score requires a sound in the rear left and center speakers starting at 5 Hz and going to 25 in 1 second with as many gradations as possible. How do I "play" that using stereo headphones which start at 10 Hz? .

All I know is when I viewed images on adifferent computer, they looked totally different than othercomputers I had viewed them on (web viewing). I am not the OP, buthow does one go about making sure that what you save an image aslooks the same over a wide range of viewing variables like othercomputers/web browsers?.

I am not sure I understand your question, so I'll answer generally..

Imagine a histogram which describes the color accuracy of the existing displays. All of them. Statistics teach us we should expect a gauss-like histogram..

Now, what you CAN'T do is calibrate other people's displays. The histogram stays. If you want other people to see the image exactly as you do, send them prints..

What you can do is try to place your display on the righthand side of the histogram. You do that by selecting a quality display and by calibrating it. Still, other people won't see what you see, but you will see what is "right" - in audio terms, what the score was..

Of course, the analogies I used are not 100% exact, but they will help understanding the involved phenomena..

/d/n..

Comment #9

Steve Baird wrote:.

I would like more information on this. This whole color space thingconfuses the heck out of me. All I know is when I viewed images on adifferent computer, they looked totally different than othercomputers I had viewed them on (web viewing). I am not the OP, buthow does one go about making sure that what you save an image aslooks the same over a wide range of viewing variables like othercomputers/web browsers?.

Hi Steve. A colour space is like a map that defines the real world colours that correspond to each triplet of RGB values. Each colour space has it's own mappings that determine the extent of available colours and what colour each RGB triplet corresponds to..

If monitors on different computers aren't calibrated and profiled, differences you see between displays will be greater than if they are all calibrated and profiled (the same). However, even with calibrating and profiling, there will still be differences when using non-colour aware web browsers, etc. Those differences , apart from any differences in calibrating/profiling, are the differences in the inherent responses of those displays. Many monitors have a response in the ballpark of sRGB, ie the colours they produce for a given RGB triplet value are similar to (but most likely not the same) as the colour that same RGB value represents in the sRGB colour space..

Calibration uses monitor controls to set monitor settings like white balance and brightness. Profiling establishes the relationship between RGB values sent to the monitor and real world colours the monitor produces for those RGB values, and puts that information in a profile. You tell Windows to use that profile for your monitor..

When Windows starts, it loads the monitor profile tone response curve (brightness curve) and white point colour value into the video card lookup table. However, when you use a non-colour aware browser to view an image, even if it's an sRGB colour space image, it's only the white point and brightness response that will be 'right'. The colours aren't managed and the RGB values of the image just get sent straight to the video system for display without conversion. Differences in monitors will mean differences in their displays..

Because monitor responses are usually in the general ballpark of sRGB, they do a good enough job of allowing us to view sRGB images even using non-colour aware browsers, etc for general viewing, even though they're not giving an accurate view..

Photoshop is a colour aware application. It takes the colour space information for the image and converts the image RGB values on the fly to make sure the right RGB values are sent to the display system to display the right colours for that image (within the limitations of what the monitor can display)..

When you want to change an image in one colour space to a different colour space, you need to convert colour spaces (eg from Adobe RGB to sRGB). Photoshop knows what real world colours the image RGB values represent based on the image's colour profile. Photoshop then figures out what RGB values need to be used in the new colour space to represent those same real world colours in that new space, from the colour profile of the new space. Photoshop then converts the RGB values from the old space to the new RGB values needed in the new space. Where not all of the old real world colours exist in the new space, some tweaking occurs based on the selected rendering intent, but that's not so important as understanding the more general issues with colour management..

A printer profile is no different from a monitor profile in that it maps the RGB values sent to the printer to the real world colours the printer produces from those RGB values (for a given ink set, paper and printer settings, assuming certain viewing conditions). Once again, Photoshop (or the printer driver itself) must convert the RGB values of the image based on it's colour profile to the right RGB values based on the printer profile to send to the printer to get the right colours to print..

In summary, it's best to calibrate and profile your monitor for colour aware application image display, eg in Photoshop. It's also best to calibrate and profile to help even with non-colour aware application image display, eg Windows IE, but there will still be differences in displays based on differing monitor native responses. Likewise, you should use the right profile for your printer..

Cheers from John from Adelaide, South AustraliaJohn Harvey Photography http://johnharvey.com.auCanon 40D, Canon 20D & Fuji F10..

Comment #10

Devnull wrote:.

Probably, SOMEHOW, your printing application is not color managed,exactly as firefox..

As a test you could download Safari for windows and view the imagesin Safari. If there is a difference from firefox, you'll haveconfirmation..

I came across this interesting post regarding Firefox 3 recently:http://forums.dpreview.com/...ms/readflat.asp?forum=1018&message=26991283.

Basically you have the option to enable colour management by entering "about:config" in the address bar and altering the setting of gfx.color_management.Regards,Peter..

Comment #11

FF 3 is still beta....

Sherwoodpete wrote:.

Devnull wrote:.

Probably, SOMEHOW, your printing application is not color managed,exactly as firefox..

As a test you could download Safari for windows and view the imagesin Safari. If there is a difference from firefox, you'll haveconfirmation..

I came across this interesting post regarding Firefox 3 recently:http://forums.dpreview.com/...ms/readflat.asp?forum=1018&message=26991283Basically you have the option to enable colour management by entering"about:config" in the address bar and altering the setting ofgfx.color_management.Regards,Peter..

Comment #12

Devnull wrote:.

FF 3 is still beta....

Absolutely correct..

Still, when I tried the release version of Safari, it was pretty much an early beta, though not named as such. It may have been updated since I tried it.Regards,Peter..

Comment #13

Thanks for the info. guys. It does make a little more sense now that you explained it...

Comment #14

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This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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