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Comparing Canons: G9 vs. S5 IS
Hi folks I'm a newbie who has just discovered this forum, and would appreciate some help. I'm trying to decide between the Canon G9 and S5 IS, and have read the few posts here that compare the two, but didn't find them applicable to my needs. I'm not sure which group of users each of the two cameras is designed for, or what factors should be the primary ones I should consider in making my decision..

I'm an enthusiast who doesn't want to shell out the $$ for a dSLR. I have no interest in taking videos with my camera, so video-shooting problems don't bother me. I'd like to be able to take photos that can be blown up to 8 x 10 size, and am particularly fond of shooting in low-light or nighttime conditions (for example, during Xmas, I love to shoot houses with tacky light displays). I also like taking close-up shots of flowers and foliage, as well as architectural shots both indoors and out that emphasize geometry..

I'm not concerned about the price differences between the G9 and S5 will buy whichever one is the better camera for me. I should add that my cameras generally take a beating I hike, kayak, take photos on sandy beaches, etc. My previous camera is/was a Canon A80 (bought in May 2005); it bit the dust recently when I dropped it and the top of the metal shell came off, giving me an excuse to upgrade. I liked the large grip on the A80, because I tend to be a klutz, but grip size won't be a deal-breaker..

I like the S5's use of AA batteries, it's zoom range, and it's extendable/flexible monitor screen, but was disturbed by the amount of noise that showed in the sample pix in the review of the S5, as compared to the sample pix in the review of the G9. I also am concerned about the continuous-shooting mode in each camera the I5 review complained about how slow the LCD screen is to catch up with the lens during continuous shooting, but the G9 review didn't address this issue..

I see lots of mentions of RAW format, but I've never used it, and don't know if it makes sense for me to use it's availability (or lack thereof) as a criterion for making a purchase decision. The G9 has it, the S5 doesn't seem to. Also, the G9's ISO range goes up to 3200; the S5's only goes to 1600, which is a factor that causes me to lean toward the G9, just because it seems impressive. (I took a film-photography course more than a decade ago, but have forgotten most of what I learned, including the significance of ISO numbers.).

I'm not sure what an electronic viewfinder does or how it differs from the LCD screen or an optical viewfinder. If anyone would be willing to enlighten me, I'd appreciate it..

From what I can tell by using the compare-cameras feature on this site, the lenses on both cameras can be adapted, but one uses the bayonet method while the other uses threads. I'm not sure what the advantages and disadvantages of each method are..

Please share any thoughts you might have that will help me decide. If you need more information to help you give advice, feel free to ask...

Comments (56)

Any $100 camera can make a decent 8x10 in good light..

The S5 has a much longer lens. Better for long distance shots (in good light)..

Neither has true wide-angle. Not good for architecture at all..

Both can take external flash. Usually a key advantage of DSLR's..

Neither has great low-light capability. This is where DSLR's shine..

You don't care about video. That's the one thing DSLR's don't do..

You should consider the Nikon D40. $500 with lens. 6 megapixels makes a 16x24 print easily...

Comment #1

I have several reasons for not wanting to buy a dSLR at this point. Primarily, I don't want the hassle of changing lenses or having to cart them along..

On the price issue: it looks like the lens that's packaged with the D40 in the kit is only an 18-55mm. Not really adequate, IMO...

Comment #2

Denise S wrote:.

Primarily, I don't want the hassle of changing lenses or having tocart them along..

So pick the lens that's closest to your needs when you go out..

On the price issue: it looks like the lens that's packaged with theD40 in the kit is only an 18-55mm. Not really adequate, IMO..

For the kind of shots you describe, it's better suited than either the G9 or S5 lenses. But if you don't like it, pick a different lens..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #3

Denise S wrote:.

I like the S5's use of AA batteries, it's zoom range, and itsextendable/flexible monitor screen, but was disturbed by the amountof noise that showed in the sample pix in the review of the S5, ascompared to the sample pix in the review of the G9..

As regards to noise, don't expect much difference in the two. Usable results will be upto ISO400 max. (for your print sizes). Only DSLRs will fare better on this aspact..

I also amconcerned about the continuous-shooting mode in each camera the I5review complained about how slow the LCD screen is to catch up withthe lens during continuous shooting, but the G9 review didn't addressthis issue..

LCDs have almost no delay in bright light. But in indoor (low) light, the delay will be excuciating (coupled with slow refresh rate)., but G9 has Optical viewfinder to bail you out under such circumstances..

I see lots of mentions of RAW format, but I've never used it, anddon't know if it makes sense for me to use it's availability (or lackthereof) as a criterion for making a purchase decision..

If max. quality is a paramount concern, than it is better to have it as one can use much powerful processing of PCs to get better JPGs..

The G9 hasit, the S5 doesn't seem to. Also, the G9's ISO range goes up to3200; the S5's only goes to 1600, which is a factor that causes me tolean toward the G9, just because it seems impressive. (I took afilm-photography course more than a decade ago, but have forgottenmost of what I learned, including the significance of ISO numbers.).

What!! ISO1600 is useless. ISO3200 is more so (it is at reduced resolution! 3MP Mobile cam will take better pic)..

I'm not sure what an electronic viewfinder does or how it differsfrom the LCD screen or an optical viewfinder. If anyone would bewilling to enlighten me, I'd appreciate it..

OVF is great for shooting action. You never loose track of subject. It does not freeze (EVF do momentarily at the clicking moment)..

From what I can tell by using the compare-cameras feature on thissite, the lenses on both cameras can be adapted, but one uses thebayonet method while the other uses threads. I'm not sure what theadvantages and disadvantages of each method are..

None. Both (system) are not worth it. Added lenses will reduce light and resolution..

Please share any thoughts you might have that will help me decide. Ifyou need more information to help you give advice, feel free to ask..

G9 has better and sharper lens. It is better built, compacter, has OVF and greater resolution and Raw mode. I would go for it. However you should consider first: Zoom requirements (minimum), size, application (if action than buy camera which has OVF, rough use than tough body, e.g. G9) , cost.Best Wishes, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612..

Comment #4

Regarding light performance, compact cameras are all pretty much the same wolf in different sheeps clothing. The only real difference in IQ of note was with the Fuji 6mp CCD which could do ISO800 to "acceptable" standards (without wide angle, and without IS... so it wouldn't have mattered anyways), but when light is scarse everything else is either bad or plain awful. ISO1600 or ISO3200 here is like choosing between a big mac and a quarter pounder when you are trying to impress a blind date. Yes they can DO high ISO, but there is no criterion for noise level at a given exposure so the spec is meaningless (think ISO1600 on compact and DSLR as night and day). Same with 12MP on the G9, it could be 100MP and it wouldn't matter at this point - a 6MP DSLR will still look better..

Denise S wrote:.

I have several reasons for not wanting to buy a dSLR at this point.Primarily, I don't want the hassle of changing lenses or having tocart them along..

Then don't. Get a cheap DSLR and a single superzoom like the Sigma 18-200OS, and beat the compacts on the wide end (and the long end on the G9, looking at a "27~300" mm zoom here), and never buy another. If you want to take pictures of the light displays at christmas, a compact could work pretty well if you were comitted to bringing a tripod with you. I recently shot with some of the newer panasonic P&S's, and while the IS helps several stops, the sensors on compacts are so noisy that it is nearly impossible to make hand held light display shots work..

On the price issue: it looks like the lens that's packaged with theD40 in the kit is only an 18-55mm. Not really adequate, IMO..

In "35mm equivalence" this is going to be 27-83mm, compare this to the S5 and the G9 with 36-432mm and 35-210mm. While the D40 kit isn't even close on the long end, the difference between 27mm and 35mm for wide angle is HUGE. If shooting architecture is a goal, this should be the bare minimum..

The main arguments against DSLRs are price and size. If these don't matter to you, even using it as if it were a P&S, the entry level DSLRs are something to consider (Pentax kit is especially good for the money).

CW..

Comment #5

Ajay0612 wrote:.

From what I can tell by using the compare-cameras feature on thissite, the lenses on both cameras can be adapted, but one uses thebayonet method while the other uses threads. I'm not sure what theadvantages and disadvantages of each method are..

None. Both (system) are not worth it. Added lenses will reduce lightand resolution..

One nit. A well-matched front-mount teleconverter does not lose light or resolution. It's an entirely different animal from a rear-mount teleconverter..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #6

Thanks for all of the advice. Ajay, I particularly appreciate your input on the differences between the two Canons. It sounds as if the G9 would be the better bet for my needs..

I have to confess that one of the primary reasons for not considering a dSLR has been that I'm intimidated by the idea. Plus the sense I've gotten is that SLR costs can quickly balloon, because of the need to purchase different components separately. Part of the allure of a compact is that other than memory cards (and possibly flashes), it won't require additional purchases..

If I was going to look at lower-priced SLRs, what's the difference between the Nikon D40 and D40x? Does anyone have any other suggestions for good SLRs in the lower price range? From my long-ago days with a Rebel II, I seem to remember that Tamron makes good lenses with a lower price point. Do you agree? Chez Wimpy, it sounds like you think Sigma does as well am I right? Does anyone have any other thoughts?..

Comment #7

Denise S wrote:.

I have to confess that one of the primary reasons for not consideringa dSLR has been that I'm intimidated by the idea..

Consder it as P&S with larger sensor. Put in Auto mode and forget. It will be easier to use than most P&S. But remember, you will have to shoot through OVF . (Although some cameras like Oly ones have live-view LCD.).

Plus the senseI've gotten is that SLR costs can quickly balloon, because of theneed to purchase different components separately. Part of the allureof a compact is that other than memory cards (and possibly flashes),it won't require additional purchases..

DSLR + one lens can get better results than P&S cameras..

If I was going to look at lower-priced SLRs, what's the differencebetween the Nikon D40 and D40x? Does anyone have any othersuggestions for good SLRs in the lower price range?.

Although both are good, I suggest you to buy one with image-stabilisation in body. e.g. Pentax K100D super or Sony A100 or Olympus E510..

Buy body only and purchase 18-200 mm lens for it. Mount it once and forget, and here is your P&S camera with larger sensor .

From my long-agodays with a Rebel II, I seem to remember that Tamron makes goodlenses with a lower price point. Do you agree? Chez Wimpy, itsounds like you think Sigma does as well am I right? Does anyonehave any other thoughts?.

Should I say all lenses are made by Sigma & Tamron for others, I would be right probably.Best Wishes, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612..

Comment #8

Denise S wrote:.

Plus the senseI've gotten is that SLR costs can quickly balloon, because of theneed to purchase different components separately..

OTOH if you upgrade the camera body in a few years time, you can keep using the same lenses. With digicams, when you upgrade, you toss the old lens with the old camera..

If I was going to look at lower-priced SLRs, what's the differencebetween the Nikon D40 and D40x?.

Main difference is the sensor. D40 uses an old 6mp sensor that has been used in many past and some current DSLRs (Nikon D50, D70, D100, every Pentax except the K10D, every K-M), D40x uses the newer 10mp sensor similar to the one used in Nikon D80 & D200, Pentax K10D and Sony A100..

Does anyone have any othersuggestions for good SLRs in the lower price range?.

They're all good. Pick the one that fits your hand and budget best..

From my long-agodays with a Rebel II, I seem to remember that Tamron makes goodlenses with a lower price point. Do you agree?.

Sure, but not for the D40 or D40x. Nikon dropped the body AF motor on the D40 and D40x, so they will only autofocus with lenses that have AF motors in them (in Nikon-speak, AF-S). Tamron lenses are not AF-S..

Chez Wimpy, itsounds like you think Sigma does as well am I right?.

Like just about any lens maker, they have well made lenses and not-so-well-made ones. You get what you pay for..

Some Sigma lenses are "AF-S". In Sigma-speak it is known as HSM..

Does anyone have any other thoughts?.

Go out an take a look. There are a couple of Canon cameras in the same price range (Rebel XT and XTi), plus a Sony (A100), Pentax (K100D, K10D), and Olympus (E410, E510)..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #9

Well, of the three SLRs you recommended, Ajay, the only one that's close to being in my price range is the Pentax. And adding the necessary lens (rather than the kit lens) pushes the price way up. I haven't found a Pentax kit that includes the lens I'm looking for..

Unfortunately, the same seems to be true for the other dSLRs I've looked at, including the ones you suggested, nickleback. The kits that include the right lenses are out of my price range at the moment. And of course, buying the body and lens separately means a higher price..

So it looks like I'm back to my original choice of Canon fixed-lens vs. Canon fixed-lens. Unless anyone else has any other suggestions for reliable lower-priced camera sources (I've checked a representative sample of the dealers that are linked to the camera-comparison function on this site, and nobody seems to offer any screamin' deals on any of the recommended SLRs, with lenses, at the moment)...

Comment #10

Denise S wrote:.

And adding thenecessary lens (rather than the kit lens) pushes the price way up..

Particularly fond of shooting in low-light or nighttime conditions (for example, >during Xmas, I love to shoot houses with tacky light displays). I also like taking >cose-up shots of flowers and foliage, as well as architectural shots both indoors >and out that emphasize geometry..

You can do all of this with a kit lens, I don't see the problem ?

Comment #11

Denise S wrote:.

Well, of the three SLRs you recommended, Ajay, the only one that'sclose to being in my price range is the Pentax. And adding thenecessary lens (rather than the kit lens) pushes the price way up..

Why is a superzoom necessary? From the subjects you say you like to take, it seems like the kit lens would be just fine, and in fact better than the lenses on the digicams..

You can check the focal lengths you usually use with this program:.

Http://www.cpr.demon.nl/prog_plotf.html.

Just give it the directory where your images are and let it go..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #12

I'll try that program thanks!.

BTW, I want a zoom lens because I do a lot of composing in the camera, and a lot of shooting from a ways away from my subject e.g., wildlife shots on hikes...

Comment #13

Nickleback wrote:.

One nit. A well-matched front-mount teleconverter does not loselight or resolution. It's an entirely different animal from arear-mount teleconverter..

2nd nit. A well-matched front tele-auxilary lens loses very little light but it will still lose resolution, particularly in front of a high ratio zoom lens...

Comment #14

Nickleback, I've used that program you recommended, but now am not sure how to interpret the results. Can you help?.

It looks like 40% of my shooting is at 80mm focal length or above, ranging all the way up to 400mm (5.42%). This doesn't count my most recent crop of photos since the A80 bit the dust, I haven't been able to figure out how to get them off the memory card..

Here's what the "equivalent list" had to say:.

[_START][make]Sony[model]DSC-KAIKAK[real_lens]14,3[35mm_equivalent]24[_END].

[_START][make]Sony[model]DSC-R1[real_lens]14,3[35mm_equivalent]24[_END].

[_START][make]Sony[model]DSC-F828[real_lens]7,1[35mm_equivalent]28[_END].

[_START][make]Nikon[model]E990[real_lens]8,2[35mm_equivalent]38[_END].

The "make" and "model" are clear enough, but I'm not sure what "real_lens" and "35mm equivalent" mean...

Comment #15

Denise S wrote:.

Nickleback, I've used that program you recommended, but now am notsure how to interpret the results. Can you help?.

It looks like 40% of my shooting is at 80mm focal length or above,ranging all the way up to 400mm (5.42%). This doesn't count my mostrecent crop of photos since the A80 bit the dust, I haven't beenable to figure out how to get them off the memory card..

Assuming all the shots were taken with the A80, this is impossible. It's focal length range (in 35mm equivalent) is 38-114mm. Go fix the focal length factor and try again. On the "lens length" tab, look to the bottom and see where there are two entry boxes with an "=" in between. First try 7.8 = 38 and analyze again. If that doesn't work, try 38 = 38..

The "make" and "model" are clear enough, but I'm not sure what"real_lens" and "35mm equivalent" mean..

Real lens is the actual focal length of the lens on the camera. For example, your Canon A80 has a 7.8-23.4mm lens..

"35mm equivalent" means the focal length(s) you'd need on a 35mm camera to get the same view. For the A80 this is 38-114mm..

Most DSLRs have smaller-than-35mm sensors, so to get "35mm equivalent" you need to multiply the actual focal length. For Olympus and Panasonic, the multiplier is 2, for Canon it is 1.6, for everybody else it is 1.5..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #16

Might the "impossibility" be related to the fact that I've cropped and otherwise tweaked many of the photos on my hard drive?.

I will rerun the program when I get home am posting from work at the moment...

Comment #17

It just occurred to me: I have at least one lens, and maybe two, stashed away from my old Canon Rebel II. Would those lenses fit on a current-day digital Rebel?..

Comment #18

Denise S wrote:.

Might the "impossibility" be related to the fact that I've croppedand otherwise tweaked many of the photos on my hard drive?.

Shouldn't make any difference..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #19

Denise S wrote:.

It just occurred to me: I have at least one lens, and maybe two,stashed away from my old Canon Rebel II. Would those lenses fit on acurrent-day digital Rebel?.

Yes, with a couple of caveats..

First, assuming you've got a kit lens (28-80mm or so), it will work fine, but the focal length range might seem a bit odd on a digital rebel. 28-80mm on a digital rebel gives the same range of angle of view as about 45-130mm on a 35mm camera..

Second, if you have a third-party lens from that era, it's possible that it won't function on a newer camera. Sigma especially had a lot of compatibility problems. They'll fix it for free, but only if they still have the parts. If the lens is old and incompatible, you're out of luck..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #20

Okay I'm heading home now to check all this stuff out. Will post again later. Thanks!..

Comment #21

Nikon's consumer-grade lenses are pretty reasonably priced. If you got a D40/D40x with the 18-55 kit lens, you could add the 55-200VR lens giving you 28-300 (35mm equiv) coverage. Or get the 18-135 for a single lens, though no VR..

A D40 is going to blow away any compact out there. The D40x is a little better, but nothing spectacular...

Comment #22

I would suggest Panasonic FZ50 (if one needs more tele-zoom), as it has the best lens amongst super-zooms. Its zoom is manually opearted (for precise adjustments). It has Raw mode too. Resolution is 10MP..

Among compact size, Canon G9, my favourite for hiking/trekking due to sharp lens, build, compact size..

Denise S wrote:.

Okay I'm heading home now to check all this stuff out. Will postagain later. Thanks!.

Best Wishes, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612..

Comment #23

Nickleback, I tried rerunning the program, both with 7.8 equalling 38 and with 38 equalling 38, and got basically the same results as before. This is on the chart headed "focal length usage (mm).".

I checked the path list to make sure that no random photos taken with someone else's camera had gotten into the analysis. But all of the 317 shots listed under 400mm were taken with my very own A80. Go figure..

Ajay, I looked at the Panasonic you suggested boy, is that a heavy sucker! It's almost twice as heavy as the G9. With such a massive camera, why the 2-inch LCD screen? That's smaller than the screen on my A80 (though I like the Panasonic's swivel capacity). And it's got an EVF instead of the optical that the G9 uses..

The Panasonic has better shot-to-shot time, according to the CNET review, but the G9 has better continuous-shooting speed. That Leica lens sure looks pretty, though ... but according to CNET, the Canon has a better noise profile than the FZ50. (Why hasn't dpreview.com given the G9 a full review?).

(sigh) Well, it looks like I should head to the camera shop and take a look at both the G9 and the FZ50..

Apparently I didn't store my Rebel II and lenses where I thought I did, so it's going to take some digging to find them. At this point, I'll only consider a dSLR if I already have a couple of lenses that would work on today's Rebels and that would give me the zoom range I want. Otherwise, SLRs are out of my price range right now...

Comment #24

Denise S wrote:.

Nickleback, I tried rerunning the program, both with 7.8 equalling 38and with 38 equalling 38, and got basically the same results asbefore. This is on the chart headed "focal length usage (mm).".

OK, nevermind..

When you were shooting with the A80, did you often wish that the lens could get you a bit closer, or a bit wider, or both? If you want closer, get a superzoom. If you want wider, get a DSLR with kit lens. If you want both, get a DSLR with either 2 lenses (kit + 55-200mm) or an 18-200mm lens..

(Why hasn't dpreview.com given the G9 a full review?).

Apparently it is up next..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #25

Denise S wrote:.

With such a massivecamera, why the 2-inch LCD screen? That's smaller than the screen onmy A80 (though I like the Panasonic's swivel capacity). And it's gotan EVF instead of the optical that the G9 uses..

It was launched long ago. At the time this size was max. for swivel type LCD. LCD though has good resolution..

The Panasonic has better shot-to-shot time, according to the CNETreview, but the G9 has better continuous-shooting speed..

I would suggest to shoot in Raw mode on FZ50 for best possible IQ. And the timing for that is comparable..

That Leicalens sure looks pretty, though ... but according to CNET, the Canonhas a better noise profile than the FZ50. (Why hasn't dpreview.comgiven the G9 a full review?).

On P&S, don't expect much IQ at anything above ISO100. Shoot in Raw mode, if you must. Use good noise reduction software like Noiseware, Neatimage, etc. for getting the best out of high ISO shots. In nutshall, be prepared to spend time on post-processing (which will be worth it.).See comprehensive G9 review below:h ttp://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_G9/See Panasonic FZ50 review:h ttp://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/PanasonicFZ50/.

Buy FZ50 only if you shoot lot of wild-life. For landscape as primary interest, buy G9.Best Wishes, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612..

Comment #26

Ajay, what do you think of the FZ18? The Camera Labs review of the G9 compared that camera to the FZ18 rather than the FZ50. It looks like the FZ18 lens has an amazing range 18x, 28 to 504mm!..

Comment #27

Right. That is fine camera (lower resolution but enough of it still at 8MP). Worth every penny and small enough too. It has Raw mode also. (You lose on swivel LCD, manual zoom, a bit on resolution, get slight softness due to such ambitious range, hot-shoe vis-a-vis FZ50.)..

Again you should be ready to shoot Raw and post-process every image to get best possible detail & IQ..

Denise S wrote:.

Ajay, what do you think of the FZ18? The Camera Labs review of theG9 compared that camera to the FZ18 rather than the FZ50. It lookslike the FZ18 lens has an amazing range 18x, 28 to 504mm!.

Best Wishes, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612..

Comment #28

Okay, here's the lens I've got: a Canon EF, 35-105mm, 1/3.5-4.5, with both manual and auto-focus. The number on it is 687866. Better range at the higher end than a kit lens, IMHO..

I've also got a Vivitar 628 AF flash, TTL dedicated. It runs on multiple batteries, but the battery compartment cover may have disappeared..

Are either of these usable with today's lower-end Canon dSLRs?..

Comment #29

Denise S wrote:.

Okay, here's the lens I've got: a Canon EF, 35-105mm, 1/3.5-4.5,with both manual and auto-focus. The number on it is 687866. Betterrange at the higher end than a kit lens, IMHO..

1. And multiply it by 1.5 to get the effective range for Canon DSLRs. So your lens becomes 52-157mm. Not a good option for a single lens..

2. The kit-lens coming with DSLRs are almost free (approx $50-60 effectively). So, if you need one lens and 3x zoom is OK than it is better to have kit lens. Else buy body-only and all-in-one lens like 18-200mm to go with it..

I've also got a Vivitar 628 AF flash, TTL dedicated. It runs onmultiple batteries, but the battery compartment cover may havedisappeared..

May or may not work with DSLR. The specs need to be matched for both. Anyway, DSLRs have good enough built in flash for general use.Best Wishes, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612..

Comment #30

Denise S wrote:.

Okay, here's the lens I've got: a Canon EF, 35-105mm, 1/3.5-4.5,with both manual and auto-focus..

Yes, it will work. It's a very ancient EF lens, the predecessor to the 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 USM. I don't know about the 35-105, but the 28-105 is regarded as Canon's best budget zoom lens. If the 35-105 is like other lenses of the same era, it's well built, but the AF motor is noisy..

This lens will give you about 55-170mm in "35mm equivalent" terms on a Canon rebel DSLR. Not bad as a normal-to-telephoto zoom, especially considering the price (free)..

Betterrange at the higher end than a kit lens, IMHO..

If you were to get a Canon DSLR, I'd recommend the kit lens too..

I've also got a Vivitar 628 AF flash, TTL dedicated. It runs onmultiple batteries, but the battery compartment cover may havedisappeared..

Won't work. Canon changed flash protocol about 10 years ago. You need an E-TTL flash. Any Canon EX-series flash will work, as should any 3rd party flash that advertises E-TTL compatibility. If you are looking at used flashes, do not confuse Canon EZ and EX. Different flashes.



Are either of these usable with today's lower-end Canon dSLRs?.

The lens is usable on all Canon DSLRs..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #31

Ajay0612 wrote:.

1. And multiply it by 1.5 to get the effective range for Canon DSLRs..

Minor nit: multiplier for Canon is 1.6..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #32

I'm looking at the Rebel XT now on Amazon it doesn't appear to have IS. Am I correct, or am I missing something? I think I'd need that IS...

Comment #33

Denise S wrote:.

I'm looking at the Rebel XT now on Amazon it doesn't appear tohave IS. Am I correct, or am I missing something? I think I'd needthat IS..

No Canon DSLR to date has in-body IS. There are IS lenses available for Canon DSLRs. An inexpensive "kit" IS lens has already been announced, and should be available soon. No word on what the price will be as a kit, but expect it to be a bit higher than the current non-IS it lens..

Here's the announcement:.

Http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082007canonefs18-55and55-250.asp.

For 18-55mm, there aren't many situations where IS is useful. For 35-105mm, maybe, although the lens is 2/3 of a stop faster at the long end than most DSLR consumer zooms so that helps compensate..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #34

(sigh) I think I'm heading back to my original idea about a fixed-lens camera. The prices for dSLRs and the necessary bells and whistles are giving me a stomachache. And I don't want to live without a camera for much longer. I can always start saving for a dSLR while I use my fixed-lens..

Nickleback, do you have any opinion about the Panasonic FZ18?..

Comment #35

Denise S wrote:.

Nickleback, do you have any opinion about the Panasonic FZ18?.

Not on the FZ18, but on it's predecessor the FZ8. Arguably the best camera in the small superzoom class (the other one at the top of the class was the Canon S3 IS). I doubt Panasonic would mess things up in a newer model..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #36

So start with a Nikon D40 w/18-55. $500. And start saving for the 55-200VR..

Or the same thing in Canon-land...

Comment #37

Greg Nut wrote:.

So start with a Nikon D40 w/18-55. $500. And start saving for the55-200VR..

Or the same thing in Canon-land..

In Canon-land the 350D w/18-55 is $515 at B&H right now. She already has a 35-105mm lens which will work for short telephoto subjects until she's saved enough money for the Canon 55-250IS, which is coming out in a month. Price is likely to be around $250, to compete directly with the Nikon 55-200VR..

Or the Pentax K100D super w/18-55mm, currently at $400 after rebate. Any old lens will be IS/VR since the sensor does the IS. You should be able to find a 70-300mm or 75-300mm lens for $150 pretty easily..

Any of these choices is perfectly fine..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #38

I hadn't looked at the 350D only at the two Rebels. I'll go back and look again...

Comment #39

Denise,.

If you have not made up your mind about the DSLR, the Fuji S6000fd could be a very good option. There are three reasons I don't like it:-uses proprietary xD cards-it lacks optical image stabilization-it is almost as large and heavy as the FZ50.

But:.

-under low light, it is reportedly among the best P/S cameras, thanks to the Fuji SuperCCD sensor-the lens offers a very useful 28mm wide angle-it is an all-around well built camera-the flash is powerful, which should help indoors.

But my choice would be the FZ18, because of the reasons I mentioned above -plus the longer lens. The image stabilization helps a lot when you shoot stationary subjects under low light. The better ISO of the S6000fd has an advantage when shooting moving subjects...

Comment #40

Thanks for the recommendation, rjodra. I'll take a look at the Fuji too..

Unfortunately, my local non-major-chain Consumers-Checkbook-recommended camera shop doesn't carry the Panasonics, and only has a demo G9. I'll have to see if they carry Fuji..

Friends on another bulletin board reminded me of a major reason for getting a fixed-lens instead of a dSLR: I ride a motor scooter for fun, and would like to have a camera that I can keep handy in a pocket or in my steering-column glove box to pull out and use for quick shots while scooting. (Yes, I would pull over to the side of the road first. Or at least come to a full stop.)  ..

Comment #41

Denise S wrote:.

I hadn't looked at the 350D only at the two Rebels. I'll go backand look again..

It is a rebel..

350D = Rebel XT = Kiss Digital N400D = Rebel XTi = Kiss Digital X.

Model numbers are used in most of the world, Rebel in US and Canada, Kiss in Japan..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #42

Let us revert back to your initial requirements:.

Denise S wrote:.

I'm an enthusiast who doesn't want to shell out the $$ for a dSLR..

At $449 & 499 the Pentax K100D & K100D super are bang for the bucks and the price is comparable to G9 & S5IS. And these have Image Stabilisation too. Only 6MP. No worrys as these 6MP are quality pixels and noiseless. You will be surprised to know that it's effective resolution at anything above ISO200 will rival (or better) the resolution offered by 12MP P&S camera at that ISO setting.See on amazon:.

Http://www.amazon.com/...cs&field-keywords=Pentax+K100d&x=19&y=23&.

Http://www.amazon.com/...UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1193367258&sr=1-1.

Ihave no interest in taking videos with my camera, so video-shootingproblems don't bother me. I'd like to be able to take photos thatcan be blown up to 8 x 10 size, and am particularly fond of shootingin low-light or nighttime conditions (for example, during Xmas, Ilove to shoot houses with tacky light displays). I also like takingclose-up shots of flowers and foliage, as well as architectural shots both indoors and out that emphasize geometry..

All above call for DSLR, DSLR, DSLR. There is tremendous difference in IQ at higher ISOs (night shots, low-light indoors). K100D will produce at ISO3200, what P&S will do at 400..

I'm not concerned about the price differences between the G9 and S5 will buy whichever one is the better camera for me. I should addthat my cameras generally take a beating I hike, kayak, takephotos on sandy beaches, etc..

G9 is better on above counts..

My previous camera is/was a Canon A80(bought in May 2005); it bit the dust recently when I dropped it andthe top of the metal shell came off, giving me an excuse to upgrade.I liked the large grip on the A80, because I tend to be a klutz, butgrip size won't be a deal-breaker..

Than you need shock-proof camera. Like Olumpus 790SW, Pentax W30 etc. (please chheck model nos.) All others will probably break on fall including DSLR & G9..

I like the S5's use of AA batteries, it's zoom range, and itsextendable/flexible monitor screen, but was disturbed by the amountof noise that showed in the sample pix in the review of the S5, ascompared to the sample pix in the review of the G9. I also amconcerned about the continuous-shooting mode in each camera the I5review complained about how slow the LCD screen is to catch up withthe lens during continuous shooting, but the G9 review didn't addressthis issue..

All above again call for DSLR. So you need DSLR 3times more than G9. Choice is yours. Don't get swayed by more zoom, resolution, features etc as you will drown among choices available. Just focus on your PRIMARY NEEDS and decide accordingly. Get started by buying a DSLR with kit lens.

DSLRs are as easy to use as typical P&S, even easier. K100D uses AA Batteries!Best Wishes, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612..

Comment #43

Yeah, I just figured that out thanks. I think if I was going to go with an SLR, I'd do better with the XTi/400D, because of the dust-cleaning feature. And I can't really afford the XTi right now. I don't want to buy another brand of SLR, because I've got a perfectly good Canon lens. Plus I've got good reasons for wanting a smaller camera right now..

So I'm definitely back to the P&S / fixed-lens options again. And rjodra, I looked at the Fuji S6000fd, but don't like the lack of IS or the 3-shot limit in continuous mode. Therefore, it won't work for me. Thanks for the suggestion, though..

Let's hope I can find a nearby camera shop that has both the G9 and at least one of the Panasonics to try out. The shop nearest to where I live only had a demo G9 (none in stock to sell) and doesn't carry either of the Panasonics. I'll have to see what the shops near my office have to offer...

Comment #44

Denise S wrote:.

Yeah, I just figured that out thanks. I think if I was going togo with an SLR, I'd do better with the XTi/400D, because of thedust-cleaning feature..

It's really a minor feature. There are still cases where the camera will need to be cleaned. It's not hard. Generally I just turn the camera upside-down and use a blower..

I don't want to buy another brand of SLR, because I've got aperfectly good Canon lens..

That's fine, although it's not an expensive lens. It wouldn't be enough to sway my decision one way or another..

Let's hope I can find a nearby camera shop that has both the G9 andat least one of the Panasonics to try out..

I think Circuit City carries Panasonic, and they definitely carry Canon. Just wander in and wave off the sales droids..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #45

(chuckle) Thanks, Ajay. I was just thinking that we'd wandered pretty far afield in this thread!.

As I said in a message earlier this evening, friends on another board reminded me of a major reason for wanting a P&S / fixed-lens right now: small size, so I can pull the camera out of my pocket or glove compartment to take quick shots while I'm on a motor-scooter trip. And I really have been wanting to have a camera with me every day while I'm walking across the Washington, DC, National Mall to and from work, right by the U.S. Capitol. I live and work in a pretty danged photogenic place, and want to grab those elusive shots I keep seeing in my day-to-day life..

So for the moment, I'm eliminating the dSLR options. I'll start putting money aside for a dSLR purchase in the future..

So you really think I need an ultra-compact to avoid damage? I see Olympus claims that the 790SW is shockproof, crushproof, freezeproof, etc. (I tried doing a features search to find other cameras that had similar features, but the Buying Guide doesn't allow you to select for them.) My A80 held up decently for 2 1/2 years being dropped fairly regularly, but of course that's not the ideal situation. I tend to prefer the idea of buying the camera I want and getting a better, more protective case am I being unrealistic?..

Comment #46

I may try both the Circuit City/Best Buy-type shop and a "real" camera shop. It's nice to be able to talk to somebody who actually knows something about cameras while I play around with them..

Thanks so much for all of your help, BTW, nickleback. I've really appreciated it...

Comment #47

Denise S wrote:.

Itend to prefer the idea of buying the camera I want and getting abetter, more protective case am I being unrealistic?.

Well. A normal padded camera pouch will be good enough. And if not that, just wrap it in bubbled polythene..

I agree with you that an ultra-compact will be good to have for everyday use and portability. Save rest of money for DSLR. Some options are:Fuji F50fd (A/S priority modes, 3x zoom with I.S., 12 MP, good IQ, compact.).

Canon SD870IS (8MP, 3.7x zoom with wide-angle & I.S.) or 800IS (which has 7MP but has OVF, far more useful to have than extra 1 MP resolution.)Pentax A30 (10MP) or A40 (12MP). Both have 3x zoom with I.S..

Best Wishes, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612..

Comment #48

But.but.I don't *want* an ultracompact!  .

Just joking but even while I'm saving for that DSLR, I really want a camera that will give me good-quality images (good enough to be blown up to 8 x 10 or 11 x 14) and some considerable zoom, which is why I started out looking at the two Canons in the first place. The G9 looks small and maneuverable enough to meet my stick-it-in-a-pocket needs. I want to look at the Panasonics to see if either of them will work although now you can probably understand better why I was so horrified at the weight of the FZ50...

Comment #49

I like both cameras... but here is my recommendation. I always go with the one that feels most comfortable. That way you will take more pictures, learn more features, and become a better photographer. I included my personal files for both cameras. That way you have access to the documentation, reviews, and cusomer support links for the camera you decide to purchase..

Http://personafile.com/...rshot-G9-12.1-Megapixel-6.0x-Zoom-P013803002107.htm.

Http://personafile.com/...S5-IS-P013803001505.htm?user=idea&i=02855312386.

All the best,.

Nautique.

A Few Of My Favorite:http://personafile.com/kcair/public..

Comment #50

Denise S wrote:.

But.but.I don't *want* an ultracompact!  .

I really wanta camera that will give me good-quality images (good enough to beblown up to 8 x 10 or 11 x 14) and some considerable zoom, which iswhy I started out looking at the two Canons in the first place. TheG9 looks small and maneuverable enough to meet mystick-it-in-a-pocket needs..

IQ wise, First choice is G9. FZ18 is good to have for wild-life/candid photography (it has better zoom at tele-end)..

I want to look at the Panasonics to seeif either of them will work although now you can probablyunderstand better why I was so horrified at the weight of the FZ50..

FZ18 is lighter and smaller than FZ50, but not pocketable. If you have seen S5 than consider FZ18 to be of similar size.117 x 80 x 78 mm - S5IS117.6 x 75.3 x 88.2 mm - FZ18.

All the cameras (FZ18,G9, S5IS, SD870IS etc., anything above 7MP) have enough resolution for your print-sizes.Best Wishes, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612..

Comment #51

Denise S wrote:.

I may try both the Circuit City/Best Buy-type shop and a "real"camera shop. It's nice to be able to talk to somebody who actuallyknows something about cameras while I play around with them..

Unfortunately a "real" camera shop is no guarantee of knowledgeable service. Best of luck in your search..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #52

FROM THE PEANUTS GALLERY: Yeah I'd recommend the Canon Powershot G9, it has a hot-shoe that you will be able to share your accesory flash with, when you buy one for your new Xti!.

On the Flipside, I'd might check out Panasonic's Lumix TZ-3. Its compact, 10X opt zoom by Leica, 3" screen, Li-Ion Batt, but no Aperture or Shutter Priority modes....

Hope my two cents helps!.

Nickleback wrote:.

Denise S wrote:.

Yeah, I just figured that out thanks. I think if I was going togo with an SLR, I'd do better with the XTi/400D, because of thedust-cleaning feature..

I don't want to buy another brand of SLR, because I've got aperfectly good Canon lens..

That's fine, although it's not an expensive lens. It wouldn't beenough to sway my decision one way or another..

Let's hope I can find a nearby camera shop that has both the G9 andat least one of the Panasonics to try out..

I think Circuit City carries Panasonic, and they definitely carryCanon. Just wander in and wave off the sales droids..

~ The Real dj Tru ~.

'Image quality is not the product of the machine, but of the person who directs the machine.' - Ansel A...

Comment #53

Oh yeah, I'd highly recommend the Camera store if you need the knowledgeable advice and wanna play. Be careful of the unethical greasy salespeople though, they might be out to just sell what makes the most money....

Find the most ethical geek there!~ The Real dj Tru ~.

'Image quality is not the product of the machine, but of the person who directs the machine.' - Ansel A...

Comment #54

The Canon SD800IS and SD870IS have true wide angle, lack of which is probably the greatest weakness in most p&s. I agree that the optical finder is more important than more pixels, though the 870 may have a better lens as well..

Try this: take your film camera with the 35-105 around town and see if 35mm is wide enough for you. If it isn't, that rules out the G9 and most other compacts..

I know we've been pushing DSLR's. They do offer greatly superior IQ. But, I use a Canon SD600 for snapshots and vacations, leaving my 3 Nikon DSLR's almost exclusively for pro use. In good light, a good p&s can offer great IQ...

Comment #55

You all may remember my questions from the end of October about G9 vs. IS5 vs. Panasonic's FZ18 or FZ50..

So I finally made it to the camera shop on November 11, talked to a saleswoman who seemed extremely knowledgeable, and walked out of the shop with.a Fuji FinePix S8000..

A bit of factual updating: during the two days before this purchase, I had spent one evening in frustration trying to take pix at a wrestling match with my *camera phone* (ouch), and the next evening with an old Canon PowerShot (five years old can't remember the model) borrowed from a friend, trying to take pix at the roller derby..

These experiences were not pretty..

So when I walked into the shop, the thoughts that were uppermost in my mind were low light and continuous shooting. When I told the saleswoman what cameras I was interested in seeing (based on my conversations with you folks, I'd narrowed it to the G9 and the FZ18), and told her what kind of shooting I was interested in doing, she immediately wanted to know whether I'd considered the Fuji..

As it turned out, the S8000 eliminates the two primary concerns I'd had with the S6000: the lack of IS and the 3-shot limit in continuous mode. The S8000 has IS, and the continuous-shooting mode now permits up to 15 shots in a row in either 2m (ultra high speed) or 4m (high speed) mode, and a "long period" continuous mode in which exposure is adjusted for each shot (and focus can also be adjusted). The saleswoman showed me what she said was the continuous mode on the G9, and compared it to the continuous mode on the S8000 this demonstration immediately sold me on serious consideration of the Fuji..

What's more, she wanted to know whether I had ever heard of this website, and we ended up going to an in-store computer and pulling up the full review of the FZ18, which happened to include image comparisons with the S8000. This considerably eased my concerns over not having studied the S8000 beforehand. The saleswoman also encouraged me to call her at any time with questions; "I love to talk about photography." That helped. But what sealed the deal was the 30-day money-back guarantee: supposedly, if I decide the camera isn't meeting my needs, I can send it back with no penalty (she didn't say anything about a restocking fee)..

So I've been playing with the S8000 for the past week or so, primarily on family visits. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance as yet to download any of the pix onto my PC (I've been traveling pretty much the whole time since I bought the camera am posting from my mother's computer right now). Until I do so (which won't be until at least Saturday), I won't be able to assuage my primary concern so far: that I won't like the color quality, and won't be able to improve it via tweaking, or will be forced to tweak every shot. So far, shots with flash appear, at least on the camera's LCD, to tend toward a chilly blue tint that I don't much care for. And this camera does not offer that all-important RAW format that I'd never heard of until I started reading this forum..

Two features I particularly like: the natural/flash mode, which takes two shots in rapid succession, one with flash and one without (this has allowed me to get some shots I would otherwise have missed); and the use of good old AA batteries rather than a proprietary rechargeable. (Speaking of batteries, the saleswoman also solved a mystery that had been bugging me for some time re: my Canon, and which also came up on the older Canon I'd borrowed for a day: the camera not recognizing that a newly-recharged battery had been inserted. She told me that many of her customers had complained that their cameras had trouble recognizing Energizer rechargeables which, of course, was what I'd been using.).

Anyway, since I spent so much time questioning the folks on this forum, I figured I should give you an update, and let you know that all your help was not for naught..

If I can muster up the nerve, I'll upload some of my shots to this forum and get your reactions..

Thanks again for all of your help...

Comment #56

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