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Can't acheive high shutter speeds indoors
I've been practicing for a few days with my new canon 350D with 18-55 kit lens. I've been taking pictures indoors using Tv or Av modes with and without flash. In any condition (day/night, flash/no flash), in a well lit room, I can not seem to dial in a faster shutter than about 1/60. My pictures are dark (with no flash) and not sharp when I use a flash because of (I assume) low shutter speed. Is this normal? Lately, I find that the best results for indoor shots are when I use full manual (M) and crank up the shutter to about 1/120 and a Aperture between f5 and f10. The exposure level indicator is off the scale (indicating underexposed) but my pictures come out very good.

Should I ignore the Ev in this case?..

Comments (13)

EV is still useful with the flash, but of course it is going to change dramatically. Indoors without flash use largest apeture F2 - F3.5, ISO 400, and you can play around with the shutter speed to get it fast enough to stop motion. The flash will allow you to usa a fast shutter speed and get stop motion effect, no shake..

Tryhttp://www.fredparker.com for tips on EV, shutter speed, etc., I really don't care for his pics but his info is solid.End of RantTim..

Comment #1

Higher ISO with large apeture, will get you a fast shutter speed inside. But why don't you use a tripod or set the camera on a table and learn to use a longer exposure to get the sesired effect. Sometimes I just play around on the coffee table using books stacked to get shots that look natural with longer exposures at ISO 100, f5.6, and play with the SS.End of RantTim..

Comment #2

I use ISO 800 (sometimes I dare use 1600) but my point is that I'm finding it impossible to use Tv or Av mode indoors which gives me a very maximum 1/60 SS (and usually need to use 1/30 or lower). Also, I didn't mention that my subjects are my 1 year old & 5 year old. I'm starting to realize that trying to get the perfect shot while running after a toddler who is continously toddling between light and dark areas of the house is challenging for a beginner photographer...

Comment #3

Set the camera in the "S" mode so you can drag the shutter..

Comment #4

In M, Av and Tv you expose for the background (ambient) light and the flash illuminates the foreground (your subject hopefully)..

So, with the onboard flash, you can use M mode, choose your aperture (typically quite open, the flash is not very powerfull) and your shutter speed (up to 1/200) and the flash will do the rest of the job. The Ev meter is showing you that the background will be dark - but in a small room you practically have no background..

/d/n.

Dom33 wrote:.

I've been practicing for a few days with my new canon 350D with 18-55kit lens. I've been taking pictures indoors using Tv or Av modeswith and without flash. In any condition (day/night, flash/noflash), in a well lit room, I can not seem to dial in a fastershutter than about 1/60. My pictures are dark (with no flash) andnot sharp when I use a flash because of (I assume) low shutter speed.Is this normal? Lately, I find that the best results for indoorshots are when I use full manual (M) and crank up the shutter toabout 1/120 and a Aperture between f5 and f10. The exposure levelindicator is off the scale (indicating underexposed) but my picturescome out very good. Even the histogram is well balanced when I usethe flash. Should I ignore the Ev in this case?..

Comment #5

Devnull wrote:.

In M, Av and Tv you expose for the background (ambient) light and theflash illuminates the foreground (your subject hopefully)..

So, with the onboard flash, you can use M mode, choose your aperture(typically quite open, the flash is not very powerfull) and yourshutter speed (up to 1/200) and the flash will do the rest of thejob. The Ev meter is showing you that the background will be dark -but in a small room you practically have no background..

Devnull is mostly right. However, with all Canon EOS cameras, including the 350D, if you set the exposure mode to Av or Tv, the camera will assume that you want fill flash and will meter for that. That is why you were getting blurred images with flash using Av/Tv. Always use M mode on a Canon DSLR when using flash. (Note that Nikons and other DSLRs do not work this way.).

Adjusting the shutter speed controls the amount of background light in the image. Use a high shutter speed (up to 1/200) if you want a dark background (useful if there is a bright window in the background) and a slower speed if you want a lighter background. The shutter speed (and the aperture) does not affect the exposure of the main subject which is controlled by the camera varying the duration of the flash burst. You have some control over the flash illumination by using FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation) which is accessed on the 350D via the menu...

Comment #6

Chris R-UK wrote:.

Devnull is mostly right. However, with all Canon EOS cameras,including the 350D, if you set the exposure mode to Av or Tv, thecamera will assume that you want fill flash and will meter for that.That is why you were getting blurred images with flash using Av/Tv.Always use M mode on a Canon DSLR when using flash..

Actually, Canon uses E-TTL II on the 350D, and it works the same regardless of mode. It fires a preflash, and based on the preflash metering, it deterimes the flash output (duration). In Av, it is generally a fill flash, since it almost always can properly expose the background since you have up to 30s for your exposure. With Tv, it depends on your setting and light levels whether the flash will be a fill or the flash will be the main light source...

Comment #7

Well, no..

You can dial in any shutter speed you want with Manual exposure..

You can dial in any shutter speed you want with Tv, and the flash turned off..

When you turn on the built-in flash, the camera automatically limits flash speed so that the flash will synchronize with the shutter, and parts of your image will not be cut off..

When you pick Aperture priority, the camera automatically picks a shutter speed to that will provide proper ex[popsure based on that aperture. If the light is low, that means a low / slow shutter speed..

Flash is complicated, once you get past P for Program you need a book and a few hoursa to get any understanding of this at all..

Using Av inside is generally a bad idea. So is using Tv inside with flash. Until you learn the basics, just use P for Program..

BAK.

BAK..

Comment #8

Dom33 wrote:.

I've been practicing for a few days with my new canon 350D with 18-55kit lens. I've been taking pictures indoors using Tv or Av modeswith and without flash. In any condition (day/night, flash/noflash), in a well lit room, I can not seem to dial in a fastershutter than about 1/60..

Well, that is not uncommon with the kit lens, since it is an f5.6 lens, and indoor light levels are generally low. If you want faster shutter speeds, you need to up the ISO or get a faster (smaller f-number) lens. Actually, in Tv, you get get as fast a shutterspeed as you want (well, up to 1/4000 without flash, 1/200 with flash) you will just get very underexposed photos if you pick too high a shutterspeed for the light level..

My pictures are dark (with no flash) andnot sharp when I use a flash because of (I assume) low shutter speed.Is this normal? Lately, I find that the best results for indoorshots are when I use full manual (M) and crank up the shutter toabout 1/120 and a Aperture between f5 and f10. The exposure levelindicator is off the scale (indicating underexposed) but my picturescome out very good. Even the histogram is well balanced when I usethe flash. Should I ignore the Ev in this case?.

Flash is a whole separate issue. With flash, you basically have two exposures. The Av/Tv/ISO combination exposes the background, and the flash exposes the foreground (generally the subject is in the foreground). The -EC level that you see in the camera is basically showing you how underexposed the background will be. So, even when you use M and totally underexpose, flash will correctly expose the subject (assuming that it is in the foreground). That is why your pics still come out OK when you use flash and M..

As far as your pictures not being sharp with flash, it could be due to many things (too slow a Tv, too high an ISO, or kit lens soft wide open)..

My suggestion is to shoot in either Tv or M with flash. Make sure that you have a fast enough Tv for the situation. I tend to shoot with high ISO (1600 or 800) to get a nice light background (I hate having the onboard flash being the main light source). You should determine if you prefer a noise with a light background, or hardly any noise and a dark background to see if you want to shoot at high ISO or not...

Comment #9

Thank you all very much for your replies. They are a big help! In Tv mode I payed too much attention to the blinking aperture value and did not even try taking the picture. Dumb! Now I know and I'm on the right track thanks to you guys. I have alot to learn and I'm glad I got this camera and didn't rush to get expensive lenses. I'll take a few thousand shots to learn and experience the limitations of this kit lens before I decide on which lenses to buy. thanks again!..

Comment #10

Dave_s93 wrote:.

Actually, Canon uses E-TTL II on the 350D, and it works the sameregardless of mode. It fires a preflash, and based on the preflashmetering, it deterimes the flash output (duration). In Av, it isgenerally a fill flash, since it almost always can properly exposethe background since you have up to 30s for your exposure. With Tv,it depends on your setting and light levels whether the flash will bea fill or the flash will be the main light source..

Are you sure about that? My 20D certainly doesn't work that way and this linkhttp://photonotes.org/articles/beginner-faq/flash.html#Av.

(see the FAQ "Why does my camera want such long shutter speed times when Im using flash in Av mode?") certainly doesn't describe it as working that way either. Here is another description by the same author:http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/.

The search function is down now but I am pretty sure that threads on the various Canon DSLR forums have said the same thing - in Av and Tv mode the camera meters for ambient light and uses fill flash.Chris R..

Comment #11

You could also read through this. Very long but very good.

Http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/.

Best wishesSid FrisbyNorwichNorfolk UKMember: National Union of JournalistsWebsite:http://www.sidfrisby.com..

Comment #12

Chris R-UK wrote:.

Are you sure about that? My 20D certainly doesn't work that way andthis linkhttp://photonotes.org/articles/beginner-faq/flash.html#Av(see the FAQ "Why does my camera want such long shutter speed timeswhen Im using flash in Av mode?") certainly doesn't describe it asworking that way either. Here is another description by the sameauthor:http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/.

The search function is down now but I am pretty sure that threads onthe various Canon DSLR forums have said the same thing - in Av and Tvmode the camera meters for ambient light and uses fill flash..

It looks like you are right. I didn't realize that Canon use "auto fill reduction" (basically reduce flash by 1.5 stops) in TV mode. Flash duration is still determined by the by the flash metering system via the preflash..

I've read most of the articles on that site previously, however, I did not catch that in Tv mode, it is always in "auto fill reduction.".

I am more familiar with these sections that explain E-TTL and E-TTL II (both the 20D and 350D use E-TTL II)..

"# When the shutter release is pressed halfway the current ambient light levels are metered by the camera as usual. Shutter speed and aperture are set by the camera or user depending on the current mode - PIC (icon) modes or P, Av, Tv or M..

# When the shutter release is pressed all the way the flash unit immediately fires a low-power preflash from the main flash tube. (ie: white light).

# The reflected light from this preflash is analyzed by the same evaluative metering system that the camera uses for metering ambient light levels. The appropriate power output (ie: flash duration) of the flash is determined and stored in memory. The entire sensor area is evaluated and compared to the ambient metering, and the area around the active focus point is emphasized. If you are in manual focus mode then either the central focus point or averaged metering is used..

# If the photo is being taken under bright lighting conditions (10 EV or brighter), auto fill reduction is applied (unless it has been disabled by a custom function, as is possible on some bodies) and the flash output is decreased by anywhere from 0.5 to 2 stops. However, the E-TTL auto fill reduction algorithm has never been published to my knowledge, so nobody outside Canon knows exactly how it works."http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/#ettlhttp://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/#ettlii.

Here's where it notes that in Tv mode it always uses auto fill reduction.http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html#tvflash..

Comment #13

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This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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