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Canon 450D 'Future Resistance'
The Canon 450D has a lot of features that I like: Live view, great AF system, awesome LCD, high resolution, great in-camera processing, low noise, Canon lens support. Only cons seem to be cheap feel to some, no in-body IS, limited to ISO 1600, and narrow grip. Not a lot missing or wrong with it, really..

I want to buy the most technologically advanced camera kit under $1000 for use in the next 5-7 years. Is the 450D the most "future-resistant" of the current generation offerings until June 2008 (the must-buy deadline due to birth of baby)?.

Thanks for any replies...

Comments (27)

AJLee wrote:.

Is the 450D the most"future-resistant" of the current generation offerings until June2008 (the must-buy deadline due to birth of baby)?.

Get something now! You'll need the next month for practice..

I'm not sure what you mean by future resistant. I'm guessing you mean "likely to still be around 10 years from now, and work with all the stuff I buy now". This can be tricky digital imaging is a disruptive technology that can drastically change a market. Similar to AF in the '80s or SLRs in the '60s. Some companies will move forward, others will stay behind, and a few new companies will enter. I don't think we've seen the end of the shake-out caused by digital imaging..

Nobody can tell the future, and anything somebody writes negative about any system is going to elicit strong reactions, be here's my opinion..

Canon: Unlikely to go away. Probably most stable system, but don't be surprised if flash system is overhauled..

Nikon: Unlikely to go away. But I wouldn't stock up on screw-drive AF (i.e. not AF-S) lenses if I were you, as I doubt there will be support outside top-end bodies within a few years..

Sony: Hard to say. They seem to be in for the long term, but there is not much track record. However, if it weren't for Sony stepping in, Minolta mount DSLRs would be history..

Pentax: Up in the air. I'm betting that they'll eventually be gobbled up by Samsung, which would be good for them. Kind of like Sony with Minolta..

Olympus: Again hard to say. They've cozied up to Panasonic, so that could bode well for the future..

Notice that the smaller players have, in one way or another, struck deals with major electronics manufacturers. That's to be expected, because developing digital cameras requires both camera and electronics expertise..

Thanks for any replies..

You're welcome. My advice is to forget all of the above, go and handle all the cameras you can find, and pick whichever one seems right to you. There are no bad DSLRs. Buy now, you'll regret waiting too long and trying to figure out how to use it in June..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #1

I'd say the 450 is clearly the most feature-rich sub-$1,000 dSLR available today. The Nikon D90 (or whatever it's called) might up the ante with an ultra-hi-rez display (like the D300 and Alpha). And I figure Canon will eventually roll out some sort of ISO-priority system..

Other than those two features, I can't see what it's missing..

Stephen..

Comment #2

And then it will be hailed as a breakthrough...

Comment #3

AJLee wrote:.

The Canon 450D has a lot of features that I like: Live view, greatAF system, awesome LCD, high resolution, great in-camera processing,low noise, Canon lens support. Only cons seem to be cheap feel tosome, no in-body IS, limited to ISO 1600, and narrow grip. Not a lotmissing or wrong with it, really..

I want to buy the most technologically advanced camera kit under$1000 for use in the next 5-7 years. Is the 450D the most"future-resistant" of the current generation offerings until June2008 (the must-buy deadline due to birth of baby)?.

Thanks for any replies..

For Canon probably yes. But did you check Sony A300 and A350... both has better live view, better eargonomics, at par ISO, tiltable LCD (without which live view is meaningless .. if I have to lie down to take a low angle shot, I can use my optical viewfinder as well), in body stabilization, and in built wireless flash capabilities. Well I am not a big fan of any specific brand .. but these features I think every photographer would need.ThanksAyan (Sonian)..

Comment #4

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried out the Sony offerings in person. The LV implementation is very nice, except it's pretty laggy and doesn't have the kind of precision I'm looking for in a DSLR. Checking the accuracy of my focus, depth of field, etc. is critical to me because that moment in time will never come back. I need to get it right, right then, right there.

At the current state of technology, if I need P&S capability, I'd rather buy a good $200 Panasonic or Canon ultracompact for the job..

If and when Sony's LV comes directly from the main sensor, it's game over. They've won the space race...

Comment #5

Predictions are complicated, esp. about the future....

Go in a shop and handle the cameras, buy the one which feels best, anything else will be wasted time, since all of the cameras around at the moment will be fine for the next 5 years....

Likely the limiting part will be the availibility of replacement batteries. The Lithium ones supplied with the cameras are ussualy dead after 3 to 5 years, so you might run into problems getting the right batteries some for the 2nd round of replacement....This woudl argure for the pentax k100D /K200D, since they use AA, which will be available..

For getting pictures of babies: you want to do available light photography. So it woudl be a huge plus if a fast prime is available for a resonable price (used?)for your system of choice ( canon 50/1.8, pentax plenty, sony 50/1.7 from Minolta, nikon: with no AF on everything below d80, Olympus: the 50/2 macro (or thesigma 30 or the Leica 25, both are expensive), or any legacy lense with adapter)..

An advantage woudl also be in-body IS, because this will supply IS on the fast lenses mentioned above. So an arguement for Olympus e510, Sony or pentax...

Live view: you likely want fast AF with this (toodlers are fast), argument for sony a3xx, maybe olympus e420/e520....

On the otherhand Nikon and Canon have the biggest Market share, so the chance of a system becoming obolete is less, however I am perfectely happy with my obsolete Minolta MD-System film camera.....

Basically you can find an argument for next to all cameras in teh market. All of them will give suffitiently good results, all of them are high tech electronics, so the resale value in 10 years will be next to zero, only the better lenses ( not the kits) will hold value....

So go in a shop play with the cameras, get what feels best and is in you budget....

Cheers.

R..

PS: keep your p&S, or get a new on. p&S have a movie function which is invalueable with kids !!!..

Comment #6

Schmaud wrote:.

For getting pictures of babies: you want to do available lightphotography..

Depends. Flash works quite well, if you know how to use it..

So it woudl be a huge plus if a fast prime is availablefor a resonable price (used?)for your system of choice ( canon50/1.8, pentax plenty, sony 50/1.7 from Minolta, nikon: with no AF oneverything below d80, Olympus: the 50/2 macro (or thesigma 30 or theLeica 25, both are expensive), or any legacy lense with adapter)..

With Nikon D40//40x/60 you get AF on the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 which costs around $425. Admittedly more expensive that 50mm f/1.8 or /1.7 lenses on Canon/Sony/Pentax, but it's also a different angle of view that is arguably more useful for indoor shots. A closer comparison would be 28mm f/1.8 and 35mm f/2, which are 2/3 of a stop and 1 stop slower, respectively. These are typically $250 to $400, much closer in cost to the Sigma 30mm f/1.4..

As for Olympus, if you consider the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 expensive, you should also consider the 50mm f/2 expensive, as they are the same price, give or take a few $. 50mm on 4/3" will be really hard to use indoors. Unless you live in a palace you'll be bumping into walls a lot..

So go in a shop play with the cameras, get what feels best and is inyou budget....

Yep..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #7

Depends. Flash works quite well, if you know how to use it..

Yes in terms of picture quality, no in terms of not disrupting the situation..

As for Olympus, if you consider the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 expensive, youshould also consider the 50mm f/2 expensive, as they are the sameprice, give or take a few $. 50mm on 4/3" will be really hard to useindoors. Unless you live in a palace you'll be bumping into walls alot..

Good point, my mind was stuck to an MD to 4/3 adapter, and the lenses already in my cup-board.....

Comment #8

Schmaud wrote:.

Depends. Flash works quite well, if you know how to use it..

Yes in terms of picture quality, no in terms of not disrupting thesituation..

Depends on the situation and how you use it. I've found that infants aren't as bothered by flash as adults are. If you are taking photos in a hospital flash is almost required, as hospital lighting is usually bad..

FWIW the (now retired) chief of OB at a local major hospital took studio quality photographs of all infants he delivered, using his trusty Hasselblad and strobes. It was a nice gift to new parents, and many of the photographs lined the halls in the OB ward..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #9

Sr383 wrote:.

I'd say the 450 is clearly the most feature-rich sub-$1,000 dSLRavailable today. The Nikon D90 (or whatever it's called) might up theante with an ultra-hi-rez display (like the D300 and Alpha). And Ifigure Canon will eventually roll out some sort of ISO-prioritysystem..

Other than those two features, I can't see what it's missing..

It is missing pop-up flash master wireless feature. But with extra cost you can buy two flash units with one has master wireless flash feature. Not every body needs such feature but it may give more lighting option when you shoot indoor a lot..

But of course 450D is a very fine camera.Rafy Sugirihttp://www.flickr.com/photos/rafysugiri/sets/http://bighugelabs.com/flickr/dna.php?username=79015415@N00.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window..

Comment #10

Forget about 5-7 years. A camera is supersceeded every 18 months, and by 36 months is flat out obsolete. And my be falling apart anyways and by then you will be able to buy a much better one for less then..

No camera is future resistant, as they get replaced all the time. And new ones always have stuff you wish your old one had. The mounts aren't going to change anytime soon. No brand is going away in the near term. Olympus would be the closest one to going away, but they will be around for a while..

The most "technologically advanced camera" as you put it right now would be the Sony A350 for under a grand. It's packing all the bells and whistles..

From a future proofing stand point, that's hard to do, as most cameras can handle what comes later (lenses) pretty well. Pentax and Sony's have the ability to make the old advanced though with their in body stabilization. So old lenses get new lives..

Your not going to go wrong with any of the cameras out there. Now if you plan to upgrade later, there can be some consideration. What you will be concerned about working in the future is the stuff that goes with the cameras. Batteries, Flashes, Memory Cards, Lenses. Sony would have the edge there since every camera they make uses the same battery, same memory card format and there is no foreseeable change to the mount (like nikon ditching the AF motor in the body) that could mess you up. So if you buy the Sony now, and decide to go for a higher level one later, or just the next entry level 18 months from now, all that stuff by the looks of things today will work in it.



Something to keep in mind is if you intend this to be a baby blaster. I would assume you will get yourself something like a super zoom so you have a one lens kit for out and about as you won't be able to carry even more, or have a chance to change lenses. At home, your probably going to want a 100macro for close ups and portrait type stuff (babies first snot....) and then something like a 1.4/50 to capture stuff inside in low light. The Pentax and Sony will be a big bonus here, as all those lenses will be stabilized for you..

Don't worry so much about the life of the body. Think more about what system would you grow with..

AJLee wrote:.

I want to buy the most technologically advanced camera kit under$1000 for use in the next 5-7 years. Is the 450D the most"future-resistant" of the current generation offerings until June2008 (the must-buy deadline due to birth of baby)?..

Comment #11

I'm not usually a fan of the whole moving screen. But if a baby is the focus of the camera, I can see it being nice. So you can be a bit more versatile in taking shots. Say when your both laying on a floor or something, it might be easier to get the shot than getting up to be in the right position. You probably don't want your child to see you as this giant creature with a giant metal/glass nose that hovers above. Being able to take shots from the side and stuff could be nice.

If you're hovering above a crib, you will probably be blocking the light you need..

So even though I don't see much for moving LV screens, I will say Babies would be a useful place for them..

Might also be useful for confirming if the baby is trapped behind the frig where you can't see ..

Comment #12

I know you have heard that it's more important to shop for the lenses as the camera will be replaced in five years. This has been my experience with the 300D, I just added a 450D..

Canon has the best lens selection, bar none; it also has the best 3rd party lens offerings, bar none. But there is more to the photographic life than just camera and lens and it is this support that also becomes important; I'm talking plug ins for photoshop, software to correct lens problems, I can't even begin to think of all the "support" items out there that is available for Canon..

In any third party offering, you will almost always see a Canon and Nikon offering first, then the rest. The 450D will serve you well for the next 5 to 7 years, but as some one else said, things can change quickly in an electronic revolution. Let me give you an example..

Today cell phone technology just made a major paradigm shift that will have a ripple effect through out the world. A phone company, I forget who - not really important - has just released a cell phone that will interact with WiFi networks, in the home, in the office, at airports, at universities - any where there is a Wifi signal. For an extra 15/month, you can have unlimited "home phone" talk, but anywhere in the city is considered "home" as long as the call is made through the WiFi network. For 20/month you get country wide coverage. This means you can call the airport from your house (on Wifi) and not be billed for the call, get to the airport and call home or office (on the airport wifi network) and say you are okay, arrive at your destination air port and call your ride to come pick you up, then call home from the destination wifi network to say how things are going, and it's all part of the 20/month - unlimited..

This means that restaurants or most places will have to begin offering Wifi if they don't already. If you know anything about Wifi, you can walk down a street and link into some ones Wifi, you could phone using their network, not be charged for it, nor would they..

Does this make my phone obsolete - not for me, because I use my phone very sparingly. But for my son, it will make a difference; for all who live on cell phones it will make a difference. Do they need this new phone - no - but will they want it - yes..

Same with cameras, if you get into the hobby, lets say Canon releases a Full Frame Rebel, 6 years from now - not an unrealistic time frame either - you might find you definitely want a larger sensored camera. Or the ISO boundary is pushed incredibly higher - which many think is a reasonable development - you may want that camera..

So you plunk your money down today and take your chances like the rest of us.Either you are in charge of the camera, or it is in charge of you...

Comment #13

Rsn48 wrote:.

Same with cameras, if you get into the hobby, lets say Canon releasesa Full Frame Rebel, 6 years from now - not an unrealistic time frame.

Based on what?.

So you plunk your money down today and take your chances like therest of us..

Yep..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #14

AJLee wrote:.

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried out the Sony offerings in person.The LV implementation is very nice, except it's pretty laggy anddoesn't have the kind of precision I'm looking for in a DSLR.Checking the accuracy of my focus, depth of field, etc. is criticalto me because that moment in time will never come back. I need toget it right, right then, right there. I don't go to places withcrowds much and am flexible enough to get down low to the ground if Ihave to without pulling a disc (we'll see how long that lasts). Atthe current state of technology, if I need P&S capability, I'd ratherbuy a good $200 Panasonic or Canon ultracompact for the job..

But with the Sony A300 and A350 you get auto focus in live view, plus instant shutter release.neither of which the Canon 450D will do, nor will any other live view DSLR..

If and when Sony's LV comes directly from the main sensor, it's gameover. They've won the space race..

I think what you will see in the future is that all of the other camera makers will go the same route with their live view that Sony is doing now..

Sony's live view works great.perhaps you should go take a second look..

J. D.Colorful Colorado.

Remember.always keep your receipt, the box, and everything that came in it!..

Comment #15

PhotoTraveler wrote:.

Forget about 5-7 years. A camera is supersceeded every 18 months,and by 36 months is flat out obsolete. And my be falling apartanyways and by then you will be able to buy a much better one forless then..

Hmmm.I have two five year old digital cameras that are still working like they were when they were new..

No camera is future resistant, as they get replaced all the time. Andnew ones always have stuff you wish your old one had. The mountsaren't going to change anytime soon. No brand is going away in thenear term. Olympus would be the closest one to going away, but theywill be around for a while..

Why do you guys always spew a bunch of krap about Olympus going away..

Just goes to show how much you know about cameras..

If Samsung doesn't buy Pentax.guess who will be the first to 'go away', as you put it..

J. D.Colorful Colorado.

Remember.always keep your receipt, the box, and everything that came in it!..

Comment #16

MusicDoctorDJ wrote:.

I think what you will see in the future is that all of the othercamera makers will go the same route with their live view that Sonyis doing now..

At least on the low end. There are too many compromises (penta-mirror, small viewfinder) to make it work for mid-range and higher cameras..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #17

MusicDoctorDJ wrote:.

Why do you guys always spew a bunch of krap about Olympus going away..

To me it doesn't seem likely, at least if Panasonic gives full backing..

If Samsung doesn't buy Pentax.guess who will be the first to'go away', as you put it..

Hard to imagine Samsung not hanging on. Their major consumer electronics competitors, Panasonic and Sony, have DSLRs..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #18

MusicDoctorDJ wrote:.

PhotoTraveler wrote:.

Forget about 5-7 years. A camera is supersceeded every 18 months,and by 36 months is flat out obsolete. And my be falling apartanyways and by then you will be able to buy a much better one forless then..

Hmmm.I have two five year old digital cameras that are stillworking like they were when they were new..

So do I, but do I use it? no. And will you find old cameras that no longer work, yes..

No camera is future resistant, as they get replaced all the time. Andnew ones always have stuff you wish your old one had. The mountsaren't going to change anytime soon. No brand is going away in thenear term. Olympus would be the closest one to going away, but theywill be around for a while..

Why do you guys always spew a bunch of krap about Olympus going away..

Excuse me? I didn't say Olympus is going away, in fact I said the opposite "they will be around for a while"..

But if the question was, of the the DSLR makers, who will go away first, the answer is Olympus. Not saying it will happen tommorow, but they are in the weekest postition. They have continualy failed to grow market share while others have stepped up (Sony, Pentax). Canon may be loosing market, but they have a long way to go before they put the out of business sign up. Sony is growing very rapidly, there is no sign they and by they meaning A mount going away anytime soon. K mount is secure with Samsung around.



4/3rds has 3 body marketers. But Leica is unlikely to ever make another one with the coming arrival of the R10. From their CEO it only looks like they will keep marketing their 4/3rds body as long as they have stock of them and some people buy them. But a new one doesn't look likely. Panasonic is barely trying and cold leave tomorrow. And all of them are dependent on Oly for the basics of the cameras..

Samsung-Pentax and Sony have way more money to throw at things and grow. If the market gets tight, 4rds mount is the one that will go. Fuji doesn't mean anything as they are just F mount, and next to know one cares about Sigma (heck I'm sure many root for the demise of that mount so that sigma might make Foveon Bodies in other mounts)..

Saying that Oly is the one who will go first of the mounts if one is to guess which goes first is not the same as saying Oly is going away..

I do think Oly is going to shift focus to EVILs or in general re-concept the system though...

Comment #19

PhotoTraveler wrote:.

But if the question was, of the the DSLR makers, who will go awayfirst, the answer is Olympus. Not saying it will happen tommorow,but they are in the weekest position..

You don't have to be the largest seller of a product to still make a profit..

Olympus is doing all right, otherwise they'd have been gone a long time ago..

Samsung-Pentax and Sony have way more money to throw at things andgrow. If the market gets tight, 4rds mount is the one that will go.Fuji doesn't mean anything as they are just F mount, and next to knowone cares about Sigma (heck I'm sure many root for the demise of thatmount so that sigma might make Foveon Bodies in other mounts)..

I think you under estimate the power of Panasonic, who just happens to be the largest corporation in the world..

And.Pentax isn't Samsung.yet..

However, I too believe that the days of the mainsttream DSLR as we know it are numbered (maybe 10 years tops) as the EVIL camera will basically take over that market in the future, and that is where we will find that the 4/3 system will have the advantage over the APS-C sensor..

And the largest corporation in the world (Panasonic) will already be in the front door..

As for Sigma and the Foveon chip.perhaps they should look for another camera company that might be interested in using their sensor.perhaps even Olympus and Panasonic..

Then maybe they'd (Sigma) sell some cameras..

J. D.Colorful Colorado.

Remember.always keep your receipt, the box, and everything that came in it!..

Comment #20

When I bought my first laptop - a Toshiba - mid 1980's somewhere, it was a simple affair with 20 megs of memory (not Gigs) and a black and white screen, with no back lighting. Back then I used to predict there would be a laptop that had a colour screen with back lighting. Most ridiculed me as it was clear such a screen would be far to expensive to put on a laptop. I'm always amazed with folks who have grown up in the electronic age thinking that technology is going to stand still and not morph..

Realize the original Canon Rebel, of which I happen to have the sales brochure from 1994 advertising it, was "full frame" that is film. But lets take a look at the original to see how far we have come..

Number of focusing points = 3 (I'm skipping some items, like what the shutter was made of).

Shutter speeds - 30 sec - 1/2000th + Bulb selectable in .5 EV incrementsFlash sync speed - 1/90thFlash coverage angle = 28 degreesGN = 12/39film transport (this is really FPS) = 1 FPSMetering = TTL full aperture metering, 6-zone metering, centre weightedaverage, 9.5% partial metering, 4 zone 3 point TTL flash meteringMeter Sensitivity = 2-20 for all patternsEC = plus/minus 2 steps in .5EV incrementsFlash Exposure comp = not availableViewfinder = 90% horizontal & vertical at .7xweight = 315 grams.

So the Rebel today - 450D - is much more sophisticated, even more so than the 1994 EOS-1N, also with specs in front of me from 1994. If I had of predicted the 450D back then, suggesting high ISO's, Live View, in camera processing, 3.5 FPS, etc. I would have been lectured to by the electronic unschooled..

Either you are in charge of the camera, or it is in charge of you...

Comment #21

Rsn48 wrote:.

When I bought my first laptop - a Toshiba - mid 1980's somewhere, itwas a simple affair with 20 megs of memory (not Gigs) and a black andwhite screen, with no back lighting..

I had the same one. But this has absolutely nothing to do with why 35mm sensors cost what they do..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #22

Sr383 wrote:.

Other than those two features, I can't see what it's missing..

Stephen.

Already mentioned ISO priority, inbody IS but what about things like.

Wireless flash controlPentaprism viewfinderintervalometerweatherproofinghigh ISO availability.

Bazz...

Comment #23

MusicDoctorDJ wrote:.

If Samsung doesn't buy Pentax.guess who will be the first to'go away', as you put it..

Samsung adopted K-mount, so it really doesn't matter if Pentax stays or goes away. Samsung definitely won't go away and therefore K-mount system definitely won't go away..

Edvinas..

Comment #24

AJLee wrote:.

I want to buy the most technologically advanced camera kit under$1000 for use in the next 5-7 years. Is the 450D the most"future-resistant" of the current generation offerings until June2008 (the must-buy deadline due to birth of baby)?.

Well, I would qustion if Canon entry level bodies and lenses will be able to physically withstand 5-7 years usage  They seem too plasticky and flimsy to be long-lasting..

Edvinas..

Comment #25

Edvinas wrote:.

MusicDoctorDJ wrote:.

If Samsung doesn't buy Pentax.guess who will be the first to'go away', as you put it..

Samsung adopted K-mount, so it really doesn't matter if Pentax staysor goes away. Samsung definitely won't go away and therefore K-mountsystem definitely won't go away..

Yes.but Samsung doesn't make their own DSLR's.they are repackaged Pentax's..

Pentax has already said that the Optio digitals will no longer be made, so if they ever do stop making DSLR's and Samsung doesn't buy the brand name, then the K-mount will indeed go away..

I think that Samsung will purchase the Pentax DSLR division, however..

J. D.Colorful Colorado.

Remember.always keep your receipt, the box, and everything that came in it!..

Comment #26

MusicDoctorDJ wrote:.

Yes.but Samsung doesn't make their own DSLR's.they arerepackaged Pentax's..

Right now they are..

Pentax has already said that the Optio digitals will no longer bemade.

Did Pentax ever make the Optio digitals? I thought they were outsourced. Otherwise why would we see so many HP and Casio digicams with similar lenses and features?.

So if they ever do stop making DSLR's and Samsung doesn't buythe brand name, then the K-mount will indeed go away..

Samsung doesn't need to buy the brand name (although it would be useful, from a marketing perspective), they need the tooling..

I think that Samsung will purchase the Pentax DSLR division, however..

Seems pretty likely..

Seen in a fortune cookie:Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed..

Comment #27

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