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best way to crop?
What is the best way to crop photos during pp? I most often will be printing 4x6 but what if I crop it to 4x6, will I then be able to make it into a 5x7 or 8x10 if I want to?..

Comments (19)

Use the cropping tool in Photo Shop on the left vertical tool bar. Select it and put the crop size on left top width in inches followed by height and select Dpi and off you go.I hope it helpsAjay Madanhttp://www.PreciousVideoMemories.com..

Comment #1

When cropping, or making any PP adjustments, always save as a different file. Never, under any circumstances, save on top of the original file. That way, you can come back later..

Now then, there is a proper time to apply cropping. You should do all your PP before cropping, EXCEPT for sharpening..

Here's the order:.

1. Apply any corrective measures, such as color balance, contrast, other blemish removal, etc. but not sharpening..

2. Crop to desired size..

3. Apply sharpening..

4. Save as a different file name, e.g. img_1234_5x7.jpg (or whatever)..

Http://www.pbase.com/digirob..

Comment #2

Bump.

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Comment #3

The Major reason to crop is to get rid of unwanted elements in your scene..

Try not to crop just to get a print size as all printers will resize your image to suit the size you want whether it be 6X4 , 5X7 or A4.

If you have an unfortunate circumstance where a printer automatically crops a picture for you incorrectly ie cuts off a head or something then just crop enough of the image to suit that particular print ratio 3:2, I have two cameras, one takes 3:2 Ratio pictures the other 4:3 Ratio, sometimes I need to crop a little off the bottom or top of the 4:3 ratio if I,m printing at 6X4 (3:2 ratio) because the printer makes the wrong choice for the scene.I think you might be confusing cropping with resizing..

You generally resize for posting on internet or emailing this reduces the file size, most online people like this Site ask for images to be made about 800 pixels on the long side. thats to reduce file storage..

If you resize an image Always use the "save as" command and give it a different name so you keep the original untouched..

I usually just add the word Resized at the end of the file name and if I do crop just add the word cropso Original image IMGP5678Resized image IMGP5678resizedCropped image IMGP5678cropped...

Comment #4

Is your camera capable of shooting RAW? If so, shoot RAW..

With RAW you can crop all you want and still keep your original file untouched. Only the export/conversion from RAW to TIFF or JPEG will retain the cropped format leaving the RAW file untouched..

This should give you all the freedom of cropping, re-cropping, adjusting and readjusting without:- Losing original image info and IQ- Having to deal with version management (like renaming)- saving by mistake a cropped version over the original..

Happy shooting.

Life's to short, enjoy it..

Comment #5

Digirob wrote:.

When cropping, or making any PP adjustments, always save as adifferent file. Never, under any circumstances, save on top of theoriginal file. That way, you can come back later..

Now then, there is a proper time to apply cropping. You should doall your PP before cropping, EXCEPT for sharpening..

Here's the order:.

1. Apply any corrective measures, such as color balance, contrast,other blemish removal, etc. but not sharpening..

2. Crop to desired size..

3. Apply sharpening..

4. Save as a different file name, e.g. img_1234_5x7.jpg (orwhatever)..

Http://www.pbase.com/digirob.

I don't understand the reasoning to "Apply any corrective measures, such as color balance, contrast, other blemish removal, etc." before cropping. I, of course, always make a copy and don't work on the original, but I crop the area which I want and then do my PP with just that portion of the picture. Then I make any scale or resolution adjustments. Why do you say to do the PP before cropping?.

David..

Comment #6

DSHarned wrote:.

I don't understand the reasoning to "Apply any corrective measures,such as color balance, contrast, other blemish removal, etc." beforecropping. I, of course, always make a copy and don't work on theoriginal, but I crop the area which I want and then do my PP withjust that portion of the picture. Then I make any scale orresolution adjustments. Why do you say to do the PP before cropping?.

David,.

I think the logic is that corrective measures may map the pixels to which they are being applied. If you crop you effectively set a new address for such applications and that can lead to problems. I have known programs hang because they get lost with the mapping..

There may be a better reason but that is my logic!.

Chris Elliott.

*Nikon* D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile.

Http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/..

Comment #7

The reason is because color balance, contrast, other blemish removal, etc. is usually the most time consuming process, so you only want to that one time..

If you crop first, then apply all your other corrections, you'll be stuck if you later decide on a different crop..

E.g. You crop for 5x7, then apply all other corrections. An hour (or two weeks) later, you want an 8x10 crop. You'll have to start at square one with the original image because your previous 5x7 crop took away data that you'll need for your 8x10 crop..

So, apply all corrections first, THEN crop..

The reason you apply sharpening after the crop is because sharpening tweaks pixels based on adjacent pixel values. Cropping will wreak that mapping. So, crop THEN sharper..

Hence the order I recommended:.

1. Apply corrective retouching.1a. Save As...2. Crop2a. Save As...3. Sharpen4.



Works for me..

DSHarned wrote:.

I don't understand the reasoning to "Apply any corrective measures,such as color balance, contrast, other blemish removal, etc." beforecropping. I, of course, always make a copy and don't work on theoriginal, but I crop the area which I want and then do my PP withjust that portion of the picture. Then I make any scale orresolution adjustments. Why do you say to do the PP before cropping?.

David.

Http://www.pbase.com/digirob..

Comment #8

Slight correction:1. Apply corrective retouching1a. Save As...2. Crop3. Sharpen3a. Save As...4.



Digirob wrote:.

1. Apply corrective retouching.1a. Save As...2. Crop2a. Save As...3. Sharpen4.



Http://www.pbase.com/digirob..

Comment #9

Well, I agree with all of the reasoning, but I don't agree with saving the intermediate file. I guess that was my question. The original procedure didn't mention saving the intermediate step. In most cases I don't see any need or saving the intermediate file, but I have file after file after file as I've developed a program. It makes sense to preserve that intermediate image, but I didn't get that save..

David..

Comment #10

Allebonneur wrote:.

Is your camera capable of shooting RAW? If so, shoot RAW.With RAW you can crop all you want and still keep your original fileuntouched. Only the export/conversion from RAW to TIFF or JPEG willretain the cropped format leaving the RAW file untouched..

There are many reasons to use raw, but I don;t think facilitating cropping is one of them. This looks to me a bit like a case of when you've got a hammer (raw) everything looks like a nail..

The key aspect of this discussion - IMHO - is about the place of cropping in the workflow, whatever the source format. And in that sense I think the best advice has been that if you leave croping until last, and preserve the full-size processed orgiinal, you can crop and re-crop in future without having to repeat the pp..

This should give you all the freedom of cropping, re-cropping,adjusting and readjusting without:- Losing original image info and IQ- Having to deal with version management (like renaming)- saving by mistake a cropped version over the original..

But if I follow your suggested workflow, if I want to produce a different crop, and the TIFF I saved after processing (and cropping) the raw won't allow the crop I want, I have to go back to the raw and repeat the post processing..

I would suggest the best workflow (in relation to cropping) for a raw source is the same as for a jpg source:.

1. Post processing (including developing the raw, if necessary)2. Save as a TIFF (or PSD) without any crop)3. Crop and save as jpg for printing (or whatever)..

Then if you want to change the crop, you go back to the processed TIFF/PSD and crop again with no loss of quality..

Maybe I'm nitpicking here, but it's just that I didn't find your suggestion was "quite right"..

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Comment #11

Digirob wrote:.

Slight correction:1. Apply corrective retouching1a. Save As...2. Crop3. Sharpen3a. Save As...4.



I am glad that I use a non-destructive editor like Lightroom. You can't do everything in Lightroom, of course, but for the 90% plus of images that only need LR the workflow is far simpler.Chris R..

Comment #12

The other alternative is to print via Qimage which will crop and resize everything for you non-destructively.Chris R..

Comment #13

Chris R-UK wrote:.

I am glad that I use a non-destructive editor like Lightroom. Youcan't do everything in Lightroom, of course, but for the 90% plus ofimages that only need LR the workflow is far simpler..

I always save as TIF or PSD while editing and perhaps JPG when finished. I keep the TIF in case I want it later..

David..

Comment #14

DSHarned wrote:.

Chris R-UK wrote:.

I am glad that I use a non-destructive editor like Lightroom. Youcan't do everything in Lightroom, of course, but for the 90% plus ofimages that only need LR the workflow is far simpler..

I always save as TIF or PSD while editing and perhaps JPG whenfinished. I keep the TIF in case I want it later..

For those photographs that I can process in LR without having to go into PS, I only need to keep the original Raw (or JPEG) file plus the very small modifications file that is kept in the LR database. If I have two versions of the modifications, e.g. one colour and the other B&W, then I just have one extra modifications file in the LR database..

If I have to go into PS for editing then, like you, I keep the PSD file but also within the LR database..

Personally I find that this workflow reduces the number of versions of files and makes it much easier to keep track of the different versions.Chris R..

Comment #15

Arrowman wrote:.

Allebonneur wrote:.

Is your camera capable of shooting RAW? If so, shoot RAW.With RAW you can crop all you want and still keep your original fileuntouched. Only the export/conversion from RAW to TIFF or JPEG willretain the cropped format leaving the RAW file untouched..

There are many reasons to use raw, but I don;t think facilitatingcropping is one of them. This looks to me a bit like a case of whenyou've got a hammer (raw) everything looks like a nail..

I never suggested that cropping should be a reason to shoot RAW. That's your interpretation. As for your analogy; You sure miss the point..

The key aspect of this discussion - IMHO - is about the place ofcropping in the workflow, whatever the source format. And in thatsense I think the best advice has been that if you leave cropinguntil last, and preserve the full-size processed orgiinal, you cancrop and re-crop in future without having to repeat the pp..

This should give you all the freedom of cropping, re-cropping,adjusting and readjusting without:- Losing original image info and IQ- Having to deal with version management (like renaming)- saving by mistake a cropped version over the original..

But if I follow your suggested workflow, if I want to produce adifferent crop, and the TIFF I saved after processing (and cropping)the raw won't allow the crop I want, I have to go back to the raw andrepeat the post processing..

I would suggest the best workflow (in relation to cropping) for a rawsource is the same as for a jpg source:.

1. Post processing (including developing the raw, if necessary)2. Save as a TIFF (or PSD) without any crop)3. Crop and save as jpg for printing (or whatever)..

Then if you want to change the crop, you go back to the processedTIFF/PSD and crop again with no loss of quality..

The subject here is what workflow is most practical when you intend cropping..

Since you 're keen on converting to Tiff, I assume you 're not shooting JPG as is totally pointless to convert a original JPG to Tiff..

Assuming RAW (as I may point out I asked the OP if that is his starting point), my suggested workflow would be to:- do the nessesary PP to the RAW- then define a crop area.

- convert the raw (efectively this will only export the crop area) to whatever file format the OP is happy with.

- and, *if necessary*, continue PP in - say - PSD. If not your done. No extra PP. No "doing it all over again"..

If your PP is so extensive after converting from RAW, you might start out by making a better original. If your purpose of PP is artistic, you're most likely to have the process scripted or styled. I know I have..

Furthermore; If your perception of "practical" is inflating a 13 MB RAW file (assuming RAW with a 10.2 MP base) to about 65 MB Tiff to create an original you already have, be my guest. It's your time and disk space..

Maybe I'm nitpicking here, but it's just that I didn't find yoursuggestion was "quite right"..

That's your prerogative..

Happy shooting.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Life's to short, enjoy it..

Comment #16

This is the way I do it..

First off I am particular about the correct composition in the camera. I use the lens and my position to get the scene the way I want it. when I get to the pc, my goal is to crop 0%. of late that is what I have been doing. or if I crop at all I crop to get the BEST pic I can from my original image. this may mean that the resultant keeper does not fit the 4x6 5x7 8x10 etc; so be it.

If the pic is framed it can be masked to cover the white anyway on all four sides..

So I am not concerned in fitting an image to a size, I am only interested in getting the best final scene I can..

Besides, if one were to shoot panoramas they would not fit any preset print size; they all come out odd sizes..

Also, for prints 8x10 and smaller, I do my own printing. when you do your own the software has adjustments that you can just print what you have so that it fits on the size paper in use, keeping the original aspect ratio. you also have the choice of turning that off and it will fit it as best it can but use all, say of a 5x7, and MAKE it fit. this means it will crop something. the paper itself is say the 8x10 and that is what it stays no matter what is printed on it. you may have 2 opposite sides that have a larger white border..

I use kodakgallery.com for all my printing above 8x10. they have a similar setup to my printer software. the forced to fit a size paper can be turned on or off to suit you. I just turn it on and off on the preview and see which I like the best. they also have a picture-perfect device which makes the colors levels and contrast correct when they print it. it can be turned on or off.



In any event, keep an uncropped untouched version of the shot no matter what. this allows you to get back to it for further recropping and pp...

Comment #17

Allebonneur wrote:.

I never suggested that cropping should be a reason to shoot RAW.That's your interpretation. As for your analogy; You sure miss thepoint....Assuming RAW (as I may point out I asked the OP if that is hisstarting point),.

What you said was:.

Is your camera capable of shooting RAW? If so, shoot RAW.With RAW you can crop all you want and still keep your original fileuntouched. Only the export/conversion from RAW to TIFF or JPEG willretain the cropped format leaving the RAW file untouched..

That looks to me like a recommendation to shoot raw, and at least partly because of benefits with cropping. I point htat out not to attack you, but to defend myself against the charge of misinterpretation .

Anyway - no harm, no foul. I'll just pick up on a couple of other points for the sake of conversation..

Allebonneur wrote:.

The subject here is what workflow is most practical when you intendcropping.Since you 're keen on converting to Tiff, I assume you 're notshooting JPG as is totally pointless to convert a original JPG toTiff..

Well, I shoot JPG mostly, raw occasionally, but yes, you're right, of course I would not usually convert a JPG to a TIFF. Save interim pp outcomes as PSD, yes..

(And on the subject of cropping: I would save the uncropped image as a PSD and then crop / save as JPG / print / whatever from the PSD. This allows me to produce different crops from the same original without loss of quality or needing to repeat pp.).

Assuming RAW (as I may point out I asked the OP if that is hisstarting point), my suggested workflow would be to:- do the nessesary PP to the RAW- then define a crop area- convert the raw (efectively this will only export the crop area) towhatever file format the OP is happy with- and, *if necessary*, continue PP in - say - PSD. If not your done.No extra PP. No "doing it all over again"..

Fair enough, I would be inclined to export the entire image rather than just the crop area. That's the part I disagree with, I suppose, I don't see the point in exporting just part of the (processed) raw image when it costs virtually nothing to export the whole thing. Anyway, different strokes....

If your PP is so extensive after converting from RAW, you might startout by making a better original. If your purpose of PP is artistic,you're most likely to have the process scripted or styled. I know Ihave..

No, it's not a question of "extensive". And I wasn't talking about the pp that happens after the raw conversion, I was talking about the "developing" of the raw original itself. Having "developed" the raw image, why not export/save the whole image, not just a cropped area? OK, maybe going back and redeveloping a raw image for a new crop is not a big deal. But it costs virtually nothing (IMHO) to avoid having to do it at all..

Furthermore; If your perception of "practical" is inflating a 13 MBRAW file (assuming RAW with a 10.2 MP base) to about 65 MB Tiff tocreate an original you already have, be my guest. It's your time anddisk space..

I guess it's because I don't actually process that many photos in that way. I would be doing about - I don't know - 2-5? "serious" images a month where I would be "wasting" that sort of disk space. That's a "waste" of about 250MB a month, out of 1-2 GB a month of images in total (all formats). It'll be a few years before even my tiny little 320GB hard disk comes under strain..

And in the meantime I will probably change my workflow as I change my practices and preferred file and processing formats..

Of course it would be an issue were I producing / working on such images in serious quantity, as no doubt you and others do..

That's your prerogative..

And one I will defend to the death!  .

Cheers...

Comment #18

Mrfizzed wrote:.

What is the best way to crop photos during pp? I most often will beprinting 4x6 but what if I crop it to 4x6, will I then be able tomake it into a 5x7 or 8x10 if I want to?.

You will not get the exact same photo when changing it from one aspect ratio to another. You should start with the original photo and crop to the specific aspect ratio you want when you want it.http://www.answers.com/topic/16-9.

At this link, note the diagram beside the title Practical Limitations. While it shows the aspect ratio of video cameras, the same concept applies to the most common aspect ratios of photos. As you can see, further cropping (and a slightly different photo) will be necessary to change a photo to another aspect ratio. The best composition (cropping) for a specifc aspect ratio will best be found by choosing it from the original. Using a photo already cropped to another aspect ratio will be much more limited in this regard..

As others have mentioned, depending on the extent of the post processing you are doing and also when performing jpeg compression to resize a photo, it is best to do all of this before cropping. As with many things digital you may only really notice the differnce if you are producing and comparing large prints where you are making a compromise of size/quality but as there is really no extra effort involved, just a different order of doing what you already do, it may be a worthwhile habit to develop for any presentation method...

Comment #19

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