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1st time dslr :o) some questions about D60, 400D, 450D
Hello everyone! I am another 1st time potential purchaser of a dslr and I have to admit this is the most time consuming purchase I've made in while but nonetheless very exciting..

Firstly I want to say that I'll probably have trouble understanding the camera jargon so I will use my best camera language and hope to understand your helpful tips!.

I know theres plenty of choice out there but I've whittled it down to nikon D60, Canon 400D or 450D. I have had an analog eos300 and am ready to trade up. However there are pros and cons and I want to make sure I am getting the best camera for me and to last me for as long as possible and not to find out later I should have gone for a better model..

Camera must be smallishPhotos I want to take: landscape, city, people, nature, children.

I run a language school and summer camps and taking good photos of moving kids is really important..

The questions: 400DIs the poor exposure of backlit subjects a real problem? I'm worried hereIs the kit lens EF-S 18-55 as bad as I have read.Will I notice either of these as a beginner?How is this camera when capturing moving objects - important!I have 2 lenses AF-S from my previous eos300...I think I can use them?.

450D.

Is image stablilisation necessary for me? I assume this is in the lens and not the camera?.

D60:.

Not much to add here just another option to the above models pricewise and what it has to offer..

I have held the 400D and D60 and they both feel comfortable.Can't test run one as I don't know anyone who has one though..

Would appreciate any help...thanks!.

SM..

Comments (8)

Snsmatthews wrote:.

I know theres plenty of choice out there but I've whittled it down tonikon D60, Canon 400D or 450D. I have had an analog eos300 and amready to trade up. However there are pros and cons and I want to makesure I am getting the best camera for me and to last me for as longas possible and not to find out later I should have gone for a bettermodel..

Camera must be smallish.

OK, can't keep the curiosity at bay any longer..

Lots of people say they want either a Nikon entry level or a Canon entry level camera. I assume this is marketing influencing people. You used to have an Eos, but that doesn't explain you keeping the D60 as an option..

Note, I'm perfectly fine with your choices! I'm just curious. You said there's plenty of choice - what were the reasons that you disregarded the other models in favour of the without doubt most mainstream ones? Pentax, Olympus and Sony have excellent entry level models (I dislike Sony, but it's still true). Some of them are clearly smaller than the Canon, and a bit smaller than the D60. So please tell me the reasons behind your choices.http://flickr.com/photos/iskender..

Comment #1

I think you are right with the marketing angle. I guess I would be looking at Canon as I have one and it would be the first name I associate with..

I have been looking in the electronic shops here in Vienna and the choices are poor. One huge chain store only has nikon and canon - and good deals on the kits. Others have the odd sony or olympus. Not seen any pentax. I have not been to a camera store as there are few but I am planning on heading out. I did start my research on the internet and hoped to gain the information necessary...

Comment #2

I know theres plenty of choice out there but I've whittled it down to nikon >D60, Canon 400D or 450D..

I think the D60 is way too limited. It only uses AF-S lenses, and doesn't have that many focus points. It's really not comparible. You might as well get a D80 (or D90 if they release one soon enough) - this is often the camera compared to the XTi in the first place. Image quality wise, I think it does better, but only when kit lenses are tested. The XTi is more of a simple and has less noise, Nikon always has lots of features but I don't really like the way they operate/handle..

Photos I want to take: landscape, city, people, nature, children.

This is a lens issue. From what you said, I think something wide would be best for you. You probably don't need anything fast because most of your interests are static stubjects..

I run a language school and summer camps and taking good photos of moving >kids is really important..

Well maybe you'll need a fast lens here to stop motion (or you can increase ISO). You should learn the creative zones and RAW as well to improve your pictures..

Is the poor exposure of backlit subjects a real problem? I'm worried here.

Backlit subjects you can deal with yourself, using partial/spot metering before you take the picture..

Is the kit lens EF-S 18-55 as bad as I have read..

I think the new Canon kit lens with IS is way better (this is what I've heard). Maybe you can find the body and lens separately..

Will I notice either of these as a beginner?.

Probably not..

How is this camera when capturing moving objects - important!.

It could be better, but I don't know what you're expecting. It only has one cross type sensor, for f2.8 lenses, and can only shoot 3FPS. It's entry level so these things aren't the highest priority..

I have 2 lenses AF-S from my previous eos300...I think I can use them?.

I have no clue on this, but you can always try out the 400D in a store where they have fully functional modes behind the desk. Bring your lenses and see if they work for autofocus/exposure..

450D.

Is image stablilisation necessary for me? I assume this is in the lens and not the camera?.

If you shoot in low light, it will really help. IS can't freeze action, it just prevents blur from camera shake...

Comment #3

The D80/D90 are too large for me...tiny hands.how do I differentiate a slow lens from a fast lens?the poor exposure question was what I had read on many reviews about the 400D.thanks for clearing me up on the IS!.

It is difficult to judge the many reviews in some cases as these come from experienced, pro users. Whether or not I or any beginner would notice the pros and cons mentioned is the question..

EG: If I read in every review that the 400D can't cope with badly lit environments it makes me wonder whether I should invest in such a camera OR is this only evident to the experienced eye!..

Comment #4

Oh and I am very open to further suggestions on cameras that I could investigate further based on my needs :o)..

Comment #5

There have been any number of these threads around lately, they all offer other options from the major manufacturer's canon, nikon, olympus, pentax & sony..

They all have their pro's/con's. The reviews here at dpreview are more often than not fair. any of these cameras will produce great images. Committing to a dslr will mean a learning curve that is not unmanageable but in the end will be rewarding..

Pick a budget, stick to it and review the features, mp, lenses available and that will start to focus your group for consideration. I'd also offer to consider a camera with scene modes until you become more proficient with your shooting where you will feel making manual adjustments. The scene modes will help get you started..

With your criteria for kids and the kind of shooting you'll be doing I'd argue that in body image stabilization is a must for you. one example of the pro's/con's of canon/nikon is that they only offer in lens IS, that means you have to buy each and every lens you want stabilized as opposed to not. it add expense and complexity to the lens and makes one face the question every time they want a new lens whether they want to spend the extra money for IS or not..

Oly, pentax, & sony offer in body image stabilization which means with ANY lens you buy it will be image stabilized regardless of it being a Auto focus or Manual focus lens. I'd argue in your case thats a big benefit to pursus options other than canon/nikon..

You can sell your old lenses if they are worth something to help fund the dslr purchase as opposed to being limited by them..

I'd really suggest looking at the alternatives as it sounds like you are a hobbyist that is not going pro anytime soon but still wants to take nice pictures for a mix of uses..

An entry level dslr with in body IS and an upgrade lens to a minimum f2.8 lens and maybe a flash would make a nice kit for you for a sub$1k budget(shot in the dark correct us otherwise if that's to high) canon and nikon can fill that as well, I'd argue the IS factor alone is more than enough reason to pursue other options that will simplify your future upgrades should you be compelled to pursue them..

E1 w/ grip, e510, e300 w/ grip, 8mm FE, 14-54mm, 35mm, 50mm, 40-150mm,50-200mm, fl-50, fuji - 6800..

Comment #6

Snsmatthews wrote:.

The D80/D90 are too large for me...tiny hands.how do I differentiate a slow lens from a fast lens?the poor exposure question was what I had read on many reviews aboutthe 400D.thanks for clearing me up on the IS!.

If you aren't planning on getting older lenses, most of the newer ones (AF-S lenses) will work on a D40 or D60, the D40 is a screaming good deal at the moment, I don't think there's much else it can't do. Pity you can't get Olympus as I hear they are good too..

What's a fast lens?? A lens with a large maximum aperture, like a 50mm f/1.4 - 1.4 is the largest aperture and lets in more light than say a f/4 lens. In fact it lets in a whole heap more light, which lets you take pictures with a high shutter speed in low light. Problem is, a fast zoom is expensive, so you might be able to get by with a slow consumer lens with VR / IS plus high ISO performance. Personally I'd rather a fast lens than cranking the ISO up, but that's between you and your budget..

It is difficult to judge the many reviews in some cases as these comefrom experienced, pro users. Whether or not I or any beginner wouldnotice the pros and cons mentioned is the question..

EG: If I read in every review that the 400D can't cope with badly litenvironments it makes me wonder whether I should invest in such acamera OR is this only evident to the experienced eye!.

As mentioned above, low light performance depends on having a lens with wide aperture, or using IS/VR, or cranking the ISO up. Each of these has problems - fast lenses are expensive, IS/VR may let you hand hold at slower shutter speed but won't stop action, and cranking the ISO can result in very grainy/noisy images. I regularly shoot a show that's indoors, and the first time I used my slow 70-300 (f/5.6 max on the long end) that cost $750 and ended up with ugly noisy images shot at ISO 1600 at f/5.6 and 1/60 sec. Next year I used a 50mm f/1.8 that cost $75 and just sat closer. I was able to obtain lovely clean sharp images using ISO 200 at f/1.8 and 1/60. This was using a Canon 30D, which is known for nice high ISO images..

My plan is to purchase a second hand f/2.8 zoom from KEH, which might be a problem for you if you bought a D40, as most of the nice older Nikon lenses are AF, not AF-S and you lose autofocus on the D40 with them. Something to think about...

Comment #7

Snsmatthews wrote:.

It is difficult to judge the many reviews in some cases as these comefrom experienced, pro users. Whether or not I or any beginner wouldnotice the pros and cons mentioned is the question..

Have you tried looking at DCResource.com reviews? Dpreview is like the WORST place to start for reviews. They assume you know everything already. Imaging-Resource and CameraLabs are also good review websites. More indepth than DCResoruce, but not as technical as Dpreview..

EG: If I read in every review that the 400D can't cope with badly litenvironments it makes me wonder whether I should invest in such acamera OR is this only evident to the experienced eye!.

I think was about the "underexposure" the 400D has. Some say it's underexposing, others think it's the correct exposure, and others claim that this problem doesn't even exist. I think mine underexposes, but I just do +1EC or FEC...

Comment #8

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